Race fit ski boot for freeride??

[RadSkier_]

New boot time and looking to replace my Raptor 140rs. Current shell fit is slightly larger than the 1/2inch race fit and closer to 1 inch which is great for comfort but I feel like it lacks in performance at times. Unless I crank it down to max I cant find a great balance between snug fit and relative comfort. I’m on my second liner (warranty replace due to liquid fit) and would rather not go the zipfit route.

My question: anyone have experience using a race fit shell as a 50/50 piste/free ride. I like to carve hard and also like to catch air on anything I can and also love to bash moguls. Will I hate my life if I size down to 1/2inch shell fit when doing more free ride skiing?

[gregL]

My question: anyone have experience using a race fit shell as a 50/50 piste/free ride. I like to carve hard and also like to catch air on anything I can and also love to bash moguls. Will I hate my life if I size down to 1/2inch shell fit when doing more free ride skiing?

My approach is to use a "citizen" race boot (Atomic Redster CS 130) with an 11mm shell fit for my "freeriding" (I don't run gates, but ski all over the place) boot. Add some rubber soles and they are $$$. Nothing from the "hybrid" or "high performance alpine" categories skis as well. Not everyone has the patience to make a plug fit or flex properly, though.

[Dromond]

My approach is to use a "citizen" race boot (Atomic Redster CS 130) with an 11mm shell fit for my "freeriding" (I don't run gates, but ski all over the place) boot. Add some rubber soles and they are $$$. Nothing from the "hybrid" or "high performance alpine" categories skis as well. Not everyone has the patience to make a plug fit or flex properly, though.

Is the sole swappable to rubber on that Redster? Just casually browsing the listing it didn't look like it.

[Marshal Olson]

Quick thought.

1/2" shell fit is 12mm. I'd call that a performance fit, but a race fit is more like 5mm shell fit.
1" shell fit is 25mm... and that is a pretty extreme comfort fit verging on hard to ski with control.

[ezgzy]

I'm using a fischer rc4 140 as my main all mountain boot: not sure on exact shell fit numbers but it's 1 finger or smaller. I got the shells on the vacuum machine with moderate pressure, and I'm not running into issues skiing bumps or getting air if i'm staying properly in the front of the boot. That is paired with a zipfit though.

[mr_pretzel]

Not going zipfits is a loss.

Your shells sound too big. A better fitting boot is always better, I ski Lange plugs for all types of skiing.

[NotSoBright]

Agreed, also in plugs (Nordica) with race fit for all types of skiing, including moguls and some park.

Initially had bought them only for skiing some FIS SL skis (which are insanely fun - highly recommend). Turns out they've been great for everything, so ditched my other boots all together.

Having said that, lots of time with the boot fitter to get the fit.

Also, I'm in 130s, not 140s (@ 170-175 pounds, 6')

Buckle them up more for carving, buckle a little less for getting rowdy.

[RadSkier_]

Thanks for the input so far - super helpful.

When we did the fitting the bootfitter thought it best to not go "performance" given that I was not going to using these boots exclusively for aggressive on-piste skiing all the time. In hindsight I should have stuck to my gut but Its not like they have been a mess the last 4 years, just not quite as "locked-in" as I'd hoped - even after all the "liquid fit" pumped into the liners.

I'm going to go with the same Raptors just one size down - appointment with a (different) bootfitter is booked for tomorrow!

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's not so much what you're doing as the fit you are going for (for what you wanna do). For me, that 1 skinny index finger behind my bigger foot and everything comes after that.
If you are the least bit of a technical skier, then you want the smaller dowel at the shop (half inch?) and you can always make a smaller boot bigger.
Also, I've heard of plenty of people downsizing, but I've never heard of going back up a size just because you like to ski the whole mountain. That's fucking dumb.
Half inch is the standard.

[mntlion]

Quick thought.

1/2" shell fit is 12mm. I'd call that a performance fit, but a race fit is more like 5mm shell fit.
1" shell fit is 25mm... and that is a pretty extreme comfort fit verging on hard to ski with control.

yes. 10-15mm is kinda standard. under 5mm = race

[gregL]

Is the sole swappable to rubber on that Redster? Just casually browsing the listing it didn't look like it.

Not without a sole planer . . .

[gregL]

Not without a sole planer . . .

Actually if the existing sole is in good (new) shape you can just screw the new sole on and rout the toes and heels to get back to ISO 5355 spec.

[tenB]

Not going zipfits is a loss.

Your shells sound too big. A better fitting boot is always better, I ski Lange plugs for all types of skiing.

Anybody skied zipfits and mimic professional or other injected liners? Would love to hear a comparison.

[mr_pretzel]

Anybody skied zipfits and mimic professional or other injected liners? Would love to hear a comparison.

I haven’t skied mimics, but I’ve had other foam liners before and the zipfit provides far better compression and feel than the ones I’ve had. The boot doc race ones might be good but I’m not sure.

[EWG]

Jesus - going into a sloppy boot for technical, fast hard all mountain skiing sounds insane. My larger foot is a 10 3/4 or so, and I'm in a 26.5 boot. it works. That's because that's the size I need for my smaller foot to be tight - that one is a normal "race" fit. Larger foot is stupid tight fit. But after some time at the fitter it all works.

Those are s-max 130s and I use them skiing hard everywhere, and buckle them tighter the more technical the line gets. Ripping carved turns on groomers I can do with the buckles all undone, cause as long as my body position is good my foot stays in the bed. Dropping off airs and bumps and steeps I'm far from having my body weight perfectly centered and I want that boot dead ass tight so I can get out of jail on a dime.

As my college kid (who is in Mach 1 140s that mtnlion helped us figure out) said when I offered to pay for a heat mold for his liners - "ski boots aren't supposed to be comfortable. They are supposed to not move." This is a guy doing double backies and 50 foot airs and sending highboy. Everyone thinks freeriders are moving to softer boots. Not the ones doing big stuff that I know.

This whole conversation is backwards from what I believe, and it's confusing me.

[GuyonaBuffalo]

Anybody skied zipfits and mimic professional or other injected liners? Would love to hear a comparison.

Someone from blister (I think Luke Koppa) said the zipfit feels as good as mimic the first day. Mimic does slowly pack out; I'm on day ~100 and it's starting to feel a little looser. I'm under the impression zipfits shouldn't ever really pack out (cause you can always shoot more cork in)

[Dee Hubbs]

Someone from blister (I think Luke Koppa) said the zipfit feels as good as mimic the first day. Mimic does slowly pack out; I'm on day ~100 and it's starting to feel a little looser. I'm under the impression zipfits shouldn't ever really pack out (cause you can always shoot more cork in)

GuyonaBuffalo, you cant even get your screen name to fit, why should we listen to your ski boot fitting advice?

[altacoup]

Jesus - going into a sloppy boot for technical, fast hard all mountain skiing sounds insane. My larger foot is a 10 3/4 or so, and I'm in a 26.5 boot. it works. That's because that's the size I need for my smaller foot to be tight - that one is a normal "race" fit. Larger foot is stupid tight fit. But after some time at the fitter it all works.

Those are s-max 130s and I use them skiing hard everywhere, and buckle them tighter the more technical the line gets. Ripping carved turns on groomers I can do with the buckles all undone, cause as long as my body position is good my foot stays in the bed. Dropping off airs and bumps and steeps I'm far from having my body weight perfectly centered and I want that boot dead ass tight so I can get out of jail on a dime.

As my college kid (who is in Mach 1 140s that mtnlion helped us figure out) said when I offered to pay for a heat mold for his liners - "ski boots aren't supposed to be comfortable. They are supposed to not move." This is a guy doing double backies and 50 foot airs and sending highboy. Everyone thinks freeriders are moving to softer boots. Not the ones doing big stuff that I know.

This whole conversation is backwards from what I believe, and it's confusing me.

I’ll counter that with advice I got from Andrew pollard. I told him I was too old to air into bumps and hard park anymore. He told me that’s because I’m skiing boots that are too tight and stiff. Doberman plugs at a 140ish flex. Said he moved to a roomier fit years ago to not punish his feet. My reply was that I’m still too old to follow him.

[SacTo]

Jesus - going into a sloppy boot for technical, fast hard all mountain skiing sounds insane. My larger foot is a 10 3/4 or so, and I'm in a 26.5 boot. it works. That's because that's the size I need for my smaller foot to be tight - that one is a normal "race" fit. Larger foot is stupid tight fit. But after some time at the fitter it all works.

Those are s-max 130s and I use them skiing hard everywhere, and buckle them tighter the more technical the line gets. Ripping carved turns on groomers I can do with the buckles all undone, cause as long as my body position is good my foot stays in the bed. Dropping off airs and bumps and steeps I'm far from having my body weight perfectly centered and I want that boot dead ass tight so I can get out of jail on a dime.

As my college kid (who is in Mach 1 140s that mtnlion helped us figure out) said when I offered to pay for a heat mold for his liners - "ski boots aren't supposed to be comfortable. They are supposed to not move." This is a guy doing double backies and 50 foot airs and sending highboy. Everyone thinks freeriders are moving to softer boots. Not the ones doing big stuff that I know.

This whole conversation is backwards from what I believe, and it's confusing me.

I’m with you, why would I want my toes to smash into the front of my boot because there is play/room for them to do so, or my heels to lift as I’m hop turning into a no fall zone.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Not to mention that skiing technical and/or variable in boots that are too big sounds like an ankle injury waiting to happen. Or worse.

[Yanos]

Jesus - going into a sloppy boot for technical, fast hard all mountain skiing sounds insane. My larger foot is a 10 3/4 or so, and I'm in a 26.5 boot. it works. That's because that's the size I need for my smaller foot to be tight - that one is a normal "race" fit. Larger foot is stupid tight fit. But after some time at the fitter it all works.

Those are s-max 130s and I use them skiing hard everywhere, and buckle them tighter the more technical the line gets. Ripping carved turns on groomers I can do with the buckles all undone, cause as long as my body position is good my foot stays in the bed. Dropping off airs and bumps and steeps I'm far from having my body weight perfectly centered and I want that boot dead ass tight so I can get out of jail on a dime.

As my college kid (who is in Mach 1 140s that mtnlion helped us figure out) said when I offered to pay for a heat mold for his liners - "ski boots aren't supposed to be comfortable. They are supposed to not move." This is a guy doing double backies and 50 foot airs and sending highboy. Everyone thinks freeriders are moving to softer boots. Not the ones doing big stuff that I know.

This whole conversation is backwards from what I believe, and it's confusing me.

So much truth here.
And stock liners pack out in 40-50 days.

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using Tapatalk

[DigSki]

Someone from blister (I think Luke Koppa) said the zipfit feels as good as mimic the first day. Mimic does slowly pack out; I'm on day ~100 and it's starting to feel a little looser. I'm under the impression zipfits shouldn't ever really pack out (cause you can always shoot more cork in)

Idk why this got posted as GuyonaBuffalo, I posted it.

GuyonaBuffalo, you cant even get your screen name to fit, why should we listen to your ski boot fitting advice?

I feel dumb for not getting this joke

[DigSki]

I’ll counter that with advice I got from Andrew pollard. I told him I was too old to air into bumps and hard park anymore. He told me that’s because I’m skiing boots that are too tight and stiff. Doberman plugs at a 140ish flex. Said he moved to a roomier fit years ago to not punish his feet. My reply was that I’m still too old to follow him.

I'm confused about how a tight fit punishes your feet more than a roomy fit. My thought process:
- Roomy - your foot is moving around and slamming the shell.
- Tight - your foot is pretty static and not slamming the shell.
What am I missing here?

[::: :::]

I’m with you, why would I want my toes to smash into the front of my boot because there is play/room for them to do so, or my heels to lift as I’m hop turning into a no fall zone.

Is there a reason heel hold (for lack of a better term[…maybe instep + heel hold?]) isn’t enough to allow toe space?

Your toe location near or far from the tip of the boot isn’t what’s controlling the resistance to forward sliding, no?

Meaning, if you have a proclivity to smash toes forward, it’s not a front-tip-of-the-boot fit problem…?

Can a more educated boot person kindly explain that dynamic?

[SnowMachine]

I’ll counter that with advice I got from Andrew pollard. I told him I was too old to air into bumps and hard park anymore. He told me that’s because I’m skiing boots that are too tight and stiff. Doberman plugs at a 140ish flex. Said he moved to a roomier fit years ago to not punish his feet. My reply was that I’m still too old to follow him.

I backed down from a 130 to a 120 flex this year. I feel like they give me a bit more suspension when I'm charging into rougher sections. I do run Zip's with them and keep them topped up with cork. I like my boots tight.

I have a set of ZB's that I've been working on. They need something other than stock liners. I think I'm going to try foaming them, but haven't decided against Intuitions or Zip's. My current Zip's that I run in my RX's won't fit into the plug. Too much volume. I'll probably soften those ZB's a bit. They're OK when it's warm, but rock hard in the colder temps. Much more variation than my RX's.