The Trials Of Personal Snow Removal.

[Alpinord]

A 7:12 is ~30 deg if you have a clinometer.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[Alpinord]

^^^Here too


I have a cabin project in Govy that has a snow load of something like 320#/sf. [need to dbl-check that with the eng, but that’s what I’m remembering atm]

Gonna design a bunker?


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[John_B]

A 7:12 is ~30 deg if you have a clinometer.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

It's my neighbors garage so I'll likely leave it as an unknown mystery. 30 degrees sounds about right.

[::: :::]

Gonna design a bunker?


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

Main gable is 15:12

[Alpinord]

Nothing like some good ole fashion wanking for therapy and results. My shop has never had ice build up like this. It has always released on it's own. It's interesting that the entirety of the recycled metal roof is fully iced where the dormer isn't. Still trying to wrap my head around what chain of events caused this to happened. The weak layer is the one that released 10 days ago causing the avalanche ten miles away:

Attachment 450932

Attachment 450933

FTR, Comparing notes with a colleague on this season’s unique conditions, including unprecedented ice damming at multiple elevations:

-snow started coming just after Christmas and the storms came back to back to back.
-around the 2nd of January, a high moisture storm hit (like last year) which created power line issues, outages and fluctuations. It laid down a saturated layer of snow, which then froze quickly and got buried in the same storm as the temps dropped. Another cold storm came on it’s heels, along with others.
-the temps stayed cold which was great for snow quality, but not so much for the frozen layer on the roofs and eaves.
-a warming, dry spell melted snow which in turn added to the ice layer and dams (see layer in snow cut)
-more snow came with return to colder temps and kept the snow quality without much of a melt which had been generally happening over many years. Again, it’s more like it was 20 plus years ago than the last couple decades.
-some recent melts in the last couple weeks, including now and the pending warm storm, have gotten the water moving again and refreezing.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[bodywhomper]

Did you pump up a raft with survival gear? 6” of rain!


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

Ha! It’s gonna be an interesting storm. In the past 2 days several relatively modern structures in a large strip mall in town have failed. Seems like bad structural design or the contractor didn’t build to design and inspections didn’t catch it. Pretty big bummer. Included a bank and med clinic.

In some areas of CA, code includes snow load with EQ. Example, “A minimum of twenty percent (20%) of the design snow load (Pf) shall be added to the dead load for seismic design.” https://www.townofmammothlakes.ca.go...ds-2020?bidId=

I’m guessing even new structures in places like mammoth lakes and Tahoe are outside of design capacity.

[neufox47]

My house roof has never slid snow, though seems steep ish - 8/12 maybe? Heavy concrete tile, not light weight - roofer from last summer who did some repairs said it's the older style you don't have to be as careful about as far as where you walk on it.

Just walked around the house looking closely at the ceiling, windows, and door jambs. There's some hairline cracking along drywall seams, but only in straight lines where the drywall pieces come together). Some of those cracks were already there, not sure if there are any new ones. No doors are sticking.

I’d check your insurance policy and make sure you won’t be excluded if you have a collapse for not taking reasonable steps to prevent it.

[old goat]

Our ground snow load is 315. We're designed for 400. Except the deck. Our deck beams are up to 17 ft 4x8 on 2' centers, many of them supported in pocket holes in the T111 siding without any framing. Years ago, tired of shoveling I hung a plumb line from the center of a long beam ending 1/4 in above a rock. Figured I'd shovel if the the bob touched the stone. It never did. The deck has been reinforced since then. This winter I've shoveled a total of 8 feet of snow off the deck to keep the snow at the deck rails (42 in) because I like to look out the front windows.

Our direct vents are required to be 12 feet above grade. Stll have 4 feet showing since they're undere a 2 foot over hang.

[neufox47]

To the builders and architects who work in Tahoe and other crazy snowy areas, what is your ideal trouble free house? A 2 story, with a roof that is just two steep surfaces, no valleys and a 12 pitch with metal roofing and all vents going through the siding in the attic? Basically the house a kid draws?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[bodywhomper]

My friend’s place in bear valley. Photo from yesterday. It’s two stories on the side of the photo and three stories on the other side. There’s a dormer on the top story that’s been a problem when there was 10’ less depth of snow. He skied onto the roof and cleared the vents. He can’t close any interior doors.

[BCMtnHound]

To the builders and architects who work in Tahoe and other crazy snowy areas, what is your ideal trouble free house? A 2 story, with a roof that is just two steep surfaces, no valleys and a 12 pitch with metal roofing and all vents going through the siding in the attic? Basically the house a kid draws?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

A geodesic dome? Igloo?

Seriously, the pics in this thread are insane. Best of luck to everyone coping with that amount of snow on their home.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

To the builders and architects who work in Tahoe and other crazy snowy areas, what is your ideal trouble free house? A 2 story, with a roof that is just two steep surfaces, no valleys and a 12 pitch with metal roofing and all vents going through the siding in the attic? Basically the house a kid draws?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Yes. A lot of the seasonal cabins I see the plumbing vents are studors. Forget anything going through the roof, they'll just leak or get buried and not work.

[Alpinord]

To the builders and architects who work in Tahoe and other crazy snowy areas, what is your ideal trouble free house? A 2 story, with a roof that is just two steep surfaces, no valleys and a 12 pitch with metal roofing and all vents going through the siding in the attic? Basically the house a kid draws?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

A roof with a vent ‘periscope’ you can drive a front end loader on?

Seriously though, the shear volume of snow is mind boggling and untenable. There’s nowhere for it to shed or to go after removal from roofs.

The simpler form the better. The opened ended, ‘alps chalet’ or A-frame is about as simple as you get, but the side walls or A-frame roof loading would need to withstand snow piling against them (ie, see my shop’s wainscoting). A ‘quonset hut’ shape could be similar. One house I designed slightly echos a ‘tilted manta ray’.

A flat or shallow pitched roof with very extended overhangs that can simply let the snow accumulate while protecting the perimeters and access points does make a lot of sense. Bonus points for collecting the water from the roof.

Earth ships, ‘Hobbit houses’, underground domes or houses are a whole other approach with their own pros and cons.

Then there are aesthetic, light, ventilation, livability, lifestyle and view considerations for when the snow is long gone.

Looks like after the Sierras get dowsed, we’ll get that flow Friday- Saturday.

Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[::: :::]

[Alpinord]

Is that Canada’s version of Hotel California?


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[El Chupacabra]

I’d check your insurance policy and make sure you won’t be excluded if you have a collapse for not taking reasonable steps to prevent it.

I cleared more yesterday, from what I can reach from the ground and while standing on snowshoes atop the giant berms in front of the house - especially trying to clear the valleys in the lower roof top, to encourage water and snow melt to drain. I'd call that reasonable.

There's not much I could do with an insurance policy the day before a storm anyway.

I drove around my neighborhood yesterday, looking at roofs and whether I saw anyone who had cleared roofs. A few metal roofs had slid, as they do. Most roofs are tile, a few are asphalt shingle. I saw exactly one house that had any signs of being cleared off the roof. All the rest have giant piles of snow like mine, some much bigger, many on much flatter roofs than mine. I'll take some pictures as I head out today.

Neighbor said his house (built before mine) had the architect tell him that something like 325 psf was required then, but he did his house to 400. I didn't build mine or have it built, so don't know what mine was designed for.

[El Chupacabra]

Maybe everything in my neighborhood is gonna collapse. Maybe everything will be fine...

[californiagrown]

I cleared more yesterday, from what I can reach from the ground and while standing on snowshoes atop the giant berms in front of the house - especially trying to clear the valleys in the lower roof top, to encourage water and snow melt to drain. I'd call that reasonable.

There's not much I could do with an insurance policy the day before a storm anyway.

I drove around my neighborhood yesterday, looking at roofs and whether I saw anyone who had cleared roofs. A few metal roofs had slid, as they do. Most roofs are tile, a few are asphalt shingle. I saw exactly one house that had any signs of being cleared off the roof. All the rest have giant piles of snow like mine, some much bigger, many on much flatter roofs than mine. I'll take some pictures as I head out today.

Neighbor said his house (built before mine) had the architect tell him that something like 325 psf was required then, but he did his house to 400. I didn't build mine or have it built, so don't know what mine was designed for.

For reference, i believe the design snowload for City of S lake tahoe is 150psf. 1 gallon of water weighs around 8.5lbs, and a home depot bucket carrys about 5 gallons on about a 0.75sf footprint. Obviously, snow (even compacted snow) weighs a lot less than liquid water. Still, to hit your 150psf loading you would have to stack your entire roof about 2.6 homedepot buckets high of pure water... or about 40" high of pure water. So youre looking at needing metric fuckton of snow on those roofs before they should start failing.

*i am an engineer, though not a structural, and this assumes materials in good condition, good construction quality, and built to recent codes*

[bodywhomper]

No earthquakes in CA/NV please!

[jmedslc]

Big slab just ripped out on NE roof and knocked everything off the window sill. Thankfully this is a modern window* cause the OG window would have been bashed in. The window is 15' off the ground.

There's still a good sized slab to go on the SE roof. Gonna need to do some digging this afternoon to clear the window and the furnace exhaust vent.

*Note - modernish window was replaced a few years back on that September windstorm where a treetop broke off and smashed through the window into the living room. i was scared for my life that day.

[XXX-er]

We don't get the big dumps of snow like those pictur as a rule but what caused big problem was a good rainfall right apres a good dump of snow early season which saturated the water table, caused flooded basements, collapsed some roofs and blew out the river to the point it was undermining the banks and some major power lines were in danger of being washed away

[californiagrown]

Stupid thought of the day: Lots of folks have heated driveways/walkways. Why arent people heating their roofs? Especially metal roofs seem like they would be easy to mcguyver along the underside from the attic.

[mud]

In Nederland the wind and sun do most of the heavy lifting.
Sweep and shovel the door ways and let nature take over.

[bodywhomper]

NWS updated forecast from this morning. 7.5-10” where I live. There are some residents with over 5’ sitting on their rooftops and many of those homes predate snow load building codes. 7.5-10” of water in South Lake Tahoe between now and Sunday. Probably more for donner pass area based on the graphic. 10-15” of water in Yosemite. Mammoth area is not called out, but gradient on the graphic looks to be lower than SLT.

[2FUNKY]

Omg! That is going to be brutal!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums