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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    outer spokanistan
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    1,089
    .
    ON at the car,
    OFF at the bar
    .
    "we all do dumb shit when we're fucked up"
    mike tyson

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Spokane/Schweitzer
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    6,770
    Quote Originally Posted by romeo tango View Post
    .
    ON at the car,
    OFF at the bar
    .
    That's always been the mantra. It's not helping much to not have it on. Not like you're saving a lot of battery life.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Amherst, Mass.
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    4,715
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    They were 60 something year olds from Jersey. What could possibly go wrong?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a "trip of a lifetime" may have had something to do with their decision making on this one. Sort of like weekend warriors that decide to go into unfavorable conditions on Mount Washington in New Hampshire because it's the weekend damnit and they've been wanting to do this for years.
    The technical term for that is:
    Vacation Alpinism

    I've definitely succumbed a bit to "V.A." on my PNW summer ski trips, although now that I've racked up more and more years of two four-day PNW summer ski trips each year, I can reassure myself that, eh, whatever, I'll be back next month, or next year, no need to push the limits (i.e., if the calendar says summer but the conditions say otherwise).

    V.A. definitely explains this PNW climbing tragedy:
    At first, the widespread reaction was similar, along the lines of, they were young guys from TX and NY, what could possibly go wrong?
    (I'll admit to thinking the same thing too initially at the time!)

    But turned out they were skilled technical climbers. (Real climbers, not just winter hikers. Way beyond my alu crampons + ice axe for sure.)
    They had a narrow weather window that anyone local would have reasonably decided was just too narrow, i.e., eh, let's all reschedule for another weekend.
    Came so close to getting away with it. But not quite.
    (IIRC, w/o revisiting all the stories, one body was found in a snow shelter near the summit. The other two probably fell to their deaths trying to descend down some couloir on the north side. National media attention was massive, perhaps just to focus on something other than various bad int'l news stories at the time, and perhaps also b/c so easy for television crews to hang out at Timberline, but the climbers' fates were unknown for awhile as search efforts were hampered, and a cell phone ping was successful, so events played out quite dramatically in real time.)
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,715
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Not clear how the safety gear would have helped. I assume you mean beacon, probe, shovel.
    More important than safety gear, imo, is knowing the snow conditions beforehand and verifying with snow pits. Even though when you climb a couloir, and it releases above you, even snow pits are not very useful.
    Agreed on the second paragraph of course.
    Regarding the first paragraph, even though with hindsight that might be correct in this particular incident, I am reminded of an excellent presentation on climber avalanche issues by Dale Atkins at ESAW several years ago, specifically one slide that stated (although I might have some of the wording a bit off):
    "In potential avalanche terrain, you have the responsibility to be searchable and to be able to search."

    And as we say in economics speak, beacon-probe-shovel is Signalling:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
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    4,715
    Quote Originally Posted by romeo tango View Post
    .
    ON at the car,
    OFF at the bar
    .
    I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
    And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
    Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    32,277
    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    why the fuck wouldn’t you turn a beacon on? sar/first responders will do a beacon search and find your dead body far faster with a beacon than via probe line.
    the high cost of batteries ?

    even tho beacon batteries last a few weeks ime
    Last edited by XXX-er; 02-27-2023 at 09:04 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tahoe
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    16,196
    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    why the fuck wouldn’t you turn a beacon on? sar/first responders will do a beacon search and find your dead body far faster with a beacon than via probe line.
    If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have on.

    Regarding the beacon I never said I was wearing it, I said it was with me. It wouldn't be on because in that scenario it's in my pack.

    If I'm with others it's on at the car and then a beacon check
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
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    11,277
    Lots of sad stuff here, but they coulda climbed somewhere else right nearby. It must’ve seemed ok until it wasn’t.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Colorado
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    2,079
    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have on.
    Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
    And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
    Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.
    This ^^ I do the same, worrying about battery life on an aviy beacon is a great example of false economy

    who remembers people complaining cuz they were'nt suposed to use rechargables in their beacons ?

    OTOH I have walked down the hall at the glacier lodge in rogers pass at 5 pm to see how many signals i could pick up and there were quite a few beer drinking BC skiers in BC still squawking

    alwasy turn that beacon off for the next time you need it, and carry spare batteries
    Last edited by XXX-er; 02-28-2023 at 01:06 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alpental
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    4,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.
    Plus you are pretty gnarly looking after couple months under the snow and then slowly melt out and hopefully parts of you haven't been scattered all over by critters. With global warming you probably won't end up like the iceman
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.
    In general, sheriffs are assholes.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    You guys can do what you want, and when I'm alone, I'll do what I want. How about that?
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    That statement ^^ is so rugged-american-individualist, sure do what you want even be a dumb ass, until yer dead and they will come looking for you
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #40
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    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,516
    PD, maybe some sort of DNR document (where the R stands for rescue or resuscitate) left on your dashboard at the trailhead?

  16. #41
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    those sherrifs are all assholes and will just ignore it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In your Dreams
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    2,407
    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have
    Have you spoken with your wife, kids and mom about that scenario? Might ease the sting if the worst happens.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Fresh Lake City
    Posts
    4,660
    Imagine going up to colchuck lake one summer, you hike the 4 miles and 2000 vert into the lake. After a rest at the lake, you decide to explore a little before heading back down the trail. And then you find that dead asshole's body that wanted their body left up there......

    Sounds pleasant, what a nice thing to leave behind. Makes finding people's poops seem almost pleasant...

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    I'm pretty sure it ^^ would be in contravention of some environmental act to just leave a body up thar ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,029
    Arguably in BC, the executor could be liable for not complying with the Cremation, Internment and Funeral Services Act that says a body has to be disposed of by internment in a proper place or cremation at a crematorium.

    I was going to go full Viking flaming long boat funeral- until I looked it up. Now it will have to be my already cremated remains only.

    Save money on a smaller boat though so that’s good.

  21. #46
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    32,277


    whatever you do watch out for the wind
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #47
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Yonder
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    21,918
    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    Arguably in BC, the executor could be liable for not complying with the Cremation, Internment and Funeral Services Act that says a body has to be disposed of by internment in a proper place or cremation at a crematorium.

    I was going to go full Viking flaming long boat funeral- until I looked it up. Now it will have to be my already cremated remains only.

    Save money on a smaller boat though so that’s good.
    That’s super Fucked up.

    I always wanted a pyre

  23. #48
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    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tahoe
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    16,196
    Quote Originally Posted by brutah View Post
    Imagine going up to colchuck lake one summer, you hike the 4 miles and 2000 vert into the lake. After a rest at the lake, you decide to explore a little before heading back down the trail. And then you find that dead asshole's body that wanted their body left up there......

    Sounds pleasant, what a nice thing to leave behind. Makes finding people's poops seem almost pleasant...
    If I was skiing around Colchuck Lake the beacon would be on and turned on. I'm not an idiot, regardless of Cisco Kid's sweeping generalization.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    8,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
    And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
    Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.
    I'm going to make an argument for not doing this but not for the reason you think.

    My beacon goes on my body as soon as I put my pants on - because I carry in a pants pocket. But I don't turn it on until I'm at the trailhead.

    Why? Because I do a full four function beacon check with my partners. I like D'BEST. Display, Electronics, Battery, Search, Transmit. Sure I could check Display and Battery when I turn it on at home but it's best to actually go through all of it with my partners so that we ALL know that everyone's beacon is fully functioning.

    When I go solo I use my spare beacon at the trailhead to do the exact same check that I would do with others.

    As for the "one less thing to forget" - a proper beacon check should never be a thing that you can forget.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Grammy Jay
    Posts
    59

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