Alpine bindings - current best?

**SoVT Joey** · 01-25-2023, 02:04 AM

Marker comp 28

**BlazersTimbers503** · 01-25-2023, 02:05 AM

I’ve been on the STH2s for years with no issues. Tried switching over to Pivot 15’s this season cuz of FOMO and to see what all the hype is about… and I didn’t get along with them like everyone else does. I think I’m too used to the greater binding delta of the STH2s and I thought the Pivots felt less damp (which I personally didn’t like). Could it all be in my head? Yup. Am I switching back to STH2s anyways? Yup.

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**1000-oaks** · 01-25-2023, 02:18 AM

Used to ski nothing but STH-12 and 14, then started using some current-gen Griffon ID's to allow rocker sole boots in the Spring when you have to hike out at the bottom. Also have a few pair of Duke PT12 with Griffon heels, and they're good. Attack2 is fine too, appreciate the low stack.

Tried Wardens and was thoroughly unimpressed, definitely prefer the low stack of the original STH series (12mm toe, 17mm heel). The original STH also has lots of metal where it counts in the heels, unlike the STH2 heel. After swapping metal toe pedestals from worn/retired STH-16 into STH-12/14 bindings, they're a pretty kick ass binding for lighter skiers. Stout yet easy step-in at a reasonable weight.

**EWG** · 01-25-2023, 07:29 AM

I find it interesting that there isn't more love for the SPX. Same toe piece as a pivot. The heel has way more travel than any non pivot biding on the market. Heel engages well and isn't bad to get into. And the heel adjustment is large enough to get about 3 BSL sizes to work with any mount.

I'm kind of in Toast's camp with pivots - small heel plate is nice for ski flex - but if you like pivots and need a binding that is either cheaper or more "shareable" SPX seems like it should be more popular.

Maybe it's cause if you move away from Pivots you just move away from Look altogether? Or is it because the general population still hasn't embraced the improvements that came when they redesigned the binding from PX to SPX? Maybe old habits just die hard.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-25-2023, 07:40 AM

Is the amount of flex increase with pivot heels quantifiable? With the stiff skis that I like I imagine any flex underfoot is imperceptible.

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**CaliBrit** · 01-25-2023, 08:08 AM

Marker gets shit on but I’ve skied royal family bindings for past 10+ years with no complaints. Not the new version yet!

**turnfarmer** · 01-25-2023, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by EWG

I find it interesting that there isn't more love for the SPX. Same toe piece as a pivot. The heel has way more travel than any non pivot biding on the market. Heel engages well and isn't bad to get into. And the heel adjustment is large enough to get about 3 BSL sizes to work with any mount.

I'm kind of in Toast's camp with pivots - small heel plate is nice for ski flex - but if you like pivots and need a binding that is either cheaper or more "shareable" SPX seems like it should be more popular.

Maybe it's cause if you move away from Pivots you just move away from Look altogether? Or is it because the general population still hasn't embraced the improvements that came when they redesigned the binding from PX to SPX? Maybe old habits just die hard.

+1 I have one pair of SPXs and will definitely buy more in future.

**1000-oaks** · 01-25-2023, 08:23 AM

^ I swapped my prior-gen Griffons to the current version, it's worth doing if you can find a $130-ish deal on them next Summer. Easier step in, though probably still the hardest binding to step into in soft snow.

**skier2265** · 01-25-2023, 08:25 AM

v

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**Core Shot** · 01-25-2023, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Is the amount of flex increase with pivot heels quantifiable? With the stiff skis that I like I imagine any flex underfoot is imperceptible.

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I’ve been saying that for years. A stiff ski barely flexes underfoot.
Pivots are about retention and ramp angle. And the dildo.

Great bindings.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-25-2023, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

I’ve been saying that for years. A stiff ski barely flexes underfoot.
Pivots are about retention and ramp angle. And the dildo.

Great bindings.

If you like dildos. I’m firmly in the STH/9xx camp, hoarding what I can. They work great with alpine WTR/GW. They always release when I want them to and I’ve never had a prerelease. I’m old and don’t huck or go really fast

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**Mustonen** · 01-25-2023, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

I’ve been saying that for years. A stiff ski barely flexes underfoot.
Pivots are about retention and ramp angle. And the dildo.

Great bindings.

I’ve seen it hypothesized that some of the difference in feel might be that the screws that hold the binding to the ski are directly under your feet, leading to a more direct or better power transfer. Or at least a different feel than most other bindings.

Whatever it is, and I’m sure most of it is in my head, I have all pivots on my skis.

**CaliBrit** · 01-25-2023, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

^ I swapped my prior-gen Griffons to the current version, it's worth doing if you can find a $130-ish deal on them next Summer. Easier step in, though probably still the hardest binding to step into in soft snow.

Yeah. Mine are all demos though and although more useful as a demo binding the new one is tall and fugly.

**El Chupacabra** · 01-25-2023, 09:08 AM

Pivots /FKS are probably the most durable binding, and they have their die hard fans who will never ski anything else.

I don't like them because they feel disconnected from the ski (that rubbery feeling mentioned), the limited boot size adjustment range, and the tiny screw pattern - they are the only binding I think I've ever torn out of a ski while skiing. They also may be the heaviest binding out there.

I like Salomon because I have jigs for them. Tyrolia feels similar, as do Marker ones with the similar toes (Jester, Griffon, etc). Still happy with my pile of old Salomon 997/ 900/ etc...

**dcpnz** · 01-25-2023, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by EWG

I find it interesting that there isn't more love for the SPX. Same toe piece as a pivot. The heel has way more travel than any non pivot biding on the market. Heel engages well and isn't bad to get into. And the heel adjustment is large enough to get about 3 BSL sizes to work with any mount.

Agree on the SPX - it’s a good option but there’s no metal toe 18 din version non-race version so they’re not TGR approved

Have STH2 on most skis and been happy - find them easy to get into, hold me in when they should, release when I would want them to. Have both 13 and 16 and do notice the weight difference, don’t break either and will go with whichever I get cheap or in the right color.

Got one set of pivots to try for FOMO reasons and don’t really get the fuss. They’re fine, but they’re expensive, they can be a pain to get into in certain situations and the forward pressure is a bit of a mystery. Maybe if you’re hucking, flipping, spinning then there’s a benefit that I’m not exploring🤷

I’ve been switching to SPX on a lot of my family’s new skis primarily for the toe piece because I got sick of adjusting the STH2 toe for a two boot quiver. So far so good. No quirks, they work, and they’re readily available off season for cheap.

No view on current tyrolia or marker since I haven’t used any in years.

**mookieman** · 01-25-2023, 11:32 AM

I don't have an objective answer for the best alpine binding, but I know the Warden 11 sure as hell isn't it.

After 30-40 days of skiing aggressively on a pair, both heel pieces developed 1/4" - 1/2" of slop moving laterally. I took a look and it stemmed from the attachment of the heel piece to the track of the binding, both of which were plastic and had deformed. Note: I run my DIN at 8 and am ~185lbs, so not a massive guy by any means.

**One (+) Sentence** · 01-25-2023, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

I’ve been saying that for years. A stiff ski barely flexes underfoot.

Totally. Hence, having the binding screws directly under the boot effectively does not lengthen the BSL.

Personally I don't ski Pivot bindings because I prefer slightly more ramp angle.

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 01-25-2023, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence

Personally I don't ski Pivot bindings because I prefer slightly more ramp angle.

I have several 2014 18's in use all with the 14mm stack alpine AFD's (heels are 19mm). I'd not be able to use the newer ones nor could use the 12/14's in the past due to the minimal delta. They are heavy (relative to all the plastique choices available).

**Stuntmonkey** · 01-25-2023, 01:00 PM

I have pivots and attacks but I'm too dumb to notice any difference. That said the attacks to release way more situations than the pivots do. Usually ones I don't want a release.

**detrusor** · 01-25-2023, 01:33 PM

Can you use wider brakes on the Spx 15? Looks like the perfect binding….

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**EWG** · 01-25-2023, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by detrusor

Can you use wider brakes on the Spx 15? Looks like the perfect binding….

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The SPX 15 is the rockerrace version, right? Pretty sure that is a different heel and only comes in race widths...

I wonder how many people on this board actually run their DIN over 12.

**XXX-er** · 01-25-2023, 01:45 PM

its not unusual to see the pivot turntable broken where the arm attaches

**gwat** · 01-25-2023, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence

Personally I don't ski Pivot bindings because I prefer slightly more ramp angle.

All this fuss over ramp angle. Bindings are easy to shim. Look even makes (made?) lifters for the Pivots in 1mm increments.

**dcpnz** · 01-25-2023, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by EWG

The SPX 15 is the rockerrace version, right? Pretty sure that is a different heel and only comes in race widths...

I wonder how many people on this board actually run their DIN over 12.

Yeah, afaik the only 15 version of an SPX is the rockerace which is different in that screws have a short mount pattern similar to pivots, only available with a skinny brake and Look says it needs to be mounted to a race plate.
I guess it’s a market thing because as far as I know the rockerace 12 and 15 use same heel with a different spring so presumably no technical reason they couldn’t put that in the regular SPX heel (note 18 is different).