Alpine bindings - current best?

[SkiLyft]

jesters are trash. Jester pros are not.

regardless trash binding work for my white trash ass.

Why are pros better?


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[XXX-er]

I agree.

I could actually give 2 shits about the short mounting pattern... I'm not sold on that part.

But I want a 15 din metal toe and a normal spx heel with wide brakes available.

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I could give 2 shits about that ^^ Im just wondeing why a shop guy sez they break more ?

[SnowMachine]

Maybe I missed this but is the strive ramp flat? Or flatter than the sth2?

As far as I can tell they are the same as STH2's. I like my flat Pivot's but he is pushing me to trying a binding with some ramp. Why the Strive over another STH2? Good question. I'm not really paying for them, and there isn't much info on the Strive out there yet. Maybe he wants me to be his beta tester on them (I know he is skiing the Strive now). They're going on heavy skis, so weight isn't a concern of mine.

Edit: Salomon claims a lower center of gravity makes the Strive feel closer to the ski. Like a Shift. Marketing BS? Probably..... Again, as far as I can tell, same ramp angle as STH2. Same heal piece (on the 16 anyway) as the STH2. I should see them by middle next week.

[knarrrr]

I could give 2 shits about that ^^ Im just wondeing why a shop guy sez they break more ?

The brake mechanism on the Pivot is less refined and less reinforced than others, and that's an issue when landing switch. As you lean forward on the landing you work into the heel elastisity and the brakes extend as the boot goes up. When they catch on the snow the brakes tend to break, or transfer the forces into the base plate and you see cracked half moons.

Part of this issue is that the majority of ripping skiers in the know tend to be on Pivots, so you just see more issues anyway.

[SnowMachine]

I asked this question of a trusted source at Amer headquarters in Ogden, and the Strive 16 is +5mm (STH2 WTR is +2mm) - lower profile Strive toepiece increases ramp (heel is the same). I decided to buy a couple more STH2 WTR's "just in case."

Before they phase out the STH2 entirely they should do a run of 18 DIN STH2 Steel clamps and we should all buy a bunch.

Interesting. In typical fashion that does not line up with what their own tech video states. The Strive is supposed to have a lower center of gravity based upon placement of the toe spring and mass, but delta is supposed to be the same. I should have some next week that I can compare.

Edit to correct ramp to delta. Hopefully using correct terminology here. I'm about to go down a rabbit hole of angles and delta with a new to me bootfitter that thinks I should try some new things out.

Not sure what boots he wants me to try, but he wants me to try the Strive's from my usual Pivots. I've found that I can adapt to most positions after a few days, so this be a curious experiment.

[gregL]

Edit to correct ramp to delta. Hopefully using correct terminology here. I'm about to go down a rabbit hole of angles and delta with a new to me bootfitter that thinks I should try some new things out.

I think ramp is more appropriate than delta (which implies an answer expressed in degrees), but as long as the differential is stated in millimeters I'm fine with either. Obviously the angle in degrees has to be qualified with a boot sole length. It's pretty hard to accurately measure toe/heel heights on the ski but I think the Strive 16 (if it is +5mm) should be the same as your Pivots. Let us know.

[XXX-er]

The brake mechanism on the Pivot is less refined and less reinforced than others, and that's an issue when landing switch. As you lean forward on the landing you work into the heel elastisity and the brakes extend as the boot goes up. When they catch on the snow the brakes tend to break, or transfer the forces into the base plate and you see cracked half moons.

Part of this issue is that the majority of ripping skiers in the know tend to be on Pivots, so you just see more issues anyway.

makes sence ^^ thank you

[SoVT Joey]

Why are pros better?


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more metal, metal towers on the heel, more metal in the toe.

[burrito]

more metal, metal towers on the heel, more metal in the toe.

I rode park a lot in my younger days but wasn't all that good at it. Consequently, I ate my fair amount of shit and regularly broke bindings. Jester Pros were the first binding I owned that never broke.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

I asked this question of a trusted source at Amer headquarters in Ogden, and the Strive 16 is +5mm (STH2 WTR is +2mm) - lower profile Strive toepiece increases ramp (heel is the same). I decided to buy a couple more STH2 WTR's "just in case."

Before they phase out the STH2 entirely they should do a run of 18 DIN STH2 Steel clamps and we should all buy a bunch.

You either mistyped or your source should not be trusted.

Strive = +5mm
STH2 WTR = +6mm
STH alpine = +6mm
STH2 MNC = +4mm

And the correct term for the above is delta.

[gregL]

Strive = +5mm
STH2 WTR = +6mm
STH alpine = +6mm
STH2 MNC = +4mm

My bad, you are correct.

[Spats]

I've always done very well with the Look SPX or equivalent. (The non-turntable Look...they change the name every few years, but it's the same heelpiece and binding.)
It doesn't have any of the issues of the turntable, it has the multidirectional toepiece, and the heel has nearly as much elastic travel while being much easier to adjust, swap brakes, and so on.
The only drawback is that it's not multinorm, just Gripwalk, so you're out of luck with touring boots.
I've always been able to run Looks about 1 DIN lower than other bindings.

Markers have that heel thing. To get forward pressure set correctly, you have to push the heelpiece forward so your boot barely goes in, the dildo has to be laying down on the ski all the way open, and a bit of snow in the binding messes up everything. The full touring frame bindings seem to be less prone to this than the resort bindings, though they have their own snow issues in touring mode.

In my long experience, Tyrolias are very sensitive to forward pressure.
If it's not set correctly, especially if it's slightly loose, you'll prerelease constantly.
I've had no troubles with my Attacks so far, likely because I know this from experience and I took the time to set forward pressure right after I mounted them. But I haven't thrashed them on chunky bulletproof yet, so I can't give them a full vote of confidence.

[SnowMachine]

You either mistyped or your source should not be trusted.

Strive = +5mm
STH2 WTR = +6mm
STH alpine = +6mm
STH2 MNC = +4mm

And the correct term for the above is delta.

I'm laughing because my change in terminology was from an old thread that gregl contributed to... carry on.

My new skis are in. I'll mount up some Strive 16's this week and see if I can feel a change from Pivots. Previously I said that I had never come out of my Pivots. Of course that changed this weekend. Not a hard crash, but messing around in the park on some rails.

[toast2266]

Another upside of pivots that I figured out:

If you're mounting your brand new skis, but you're kinda not paying attention, and you're drinking some beer, and your 2 year old is "helping," and you put your template on and drill your holes, only to then realize you put the fucking template on backwards and you're gonna be skiing switch permanently, the pivot heel is far enough forward that it doesn't conflict with your toe holes when you re-drill the holes facing the right direction. So that's a nice feature.

[HAB]

Another upside of pivots that I figured out:

If you're mounting your brand new skis, but you're kinda not paying attention, and you're drinking some beer, and your 2 year old is "helping," and you put your template on and drill your holes, only to then realize you put the fucking template on backwards and you're gonna be skiing switch permanently, the pivot heel is far enough forward that it doesn't conflict with your toe holes when you re-drill the holes facing the right direction. So that's a nice feature.

Not to detract from that undeniably excellent feature, but an update to your SOP of "tips to the left, always" would have fixed that too.

Pretty sure having that hardwired has saved me from making a similar mistake while mounting skis under the influence of beer and, uh, other stuff.

[toast2266]

Not to detract from that undeniably excellent feature, but an update to your SOP of "tips to the left, always" would have fixed that too.

Pretty sure having that hardwired has saved me from making a similar mistake while mounting skis under the influence of beer and, uh, other stuff.

That was at least part of my fuck up. Set it down one way, picked it up, set it back down the other way.

In my defense, the skis have a very similar tip and tail profile and the graphics don't really help with directional orientation. And the two year old was hitting my wife's car with a bike pump.

[HAB]

That was at least part of my fuck up. Set it down one way, picked it up, set it back down the other way.

In my defense, the skis have a very similar tip and tail profile and the graphics don't really help with directional orientation. And the two year old was hitting my wife's car with a bike pump.

That does sound distracting. At least it was only one of the two year olds?

[toast2266]

That does sound distracting. At least it was only one of the two year olds?

Correct. The shop is cold and dirty and there's not a lot of dancing involved, so the other one stayed upstairs.

[Judo Chop!]

as a parent,
this is 100% excusable.
Good on you for bringing them to the garage.

[SoVT Joey]

Markers have that heel thing. To get forward pressure set correctly, you have to push the heelpiece forward so your boot barely goes in, the dildo has to be laying down on the ski all the way open, and a bit of snow in the binding messes up everything. The full touring frame bindings seem to be less prone to this than the resort bindings, though they have their own snow issues in touring mode.

I spend a lot of time with my skis off having safety meetings in the woods, that being said I’ve never had a problem stepping into my bindings in deep snow, I mean no more with markers then I had with pivots. In fact the markers feel like they hold you in better then a pivot if you do have snow on your heel. I think it’s more of a mental thing then anything. I run a 13-14 din so I know that no matter what, I need to step with some force.

[Mustonen]

And the two year old was hitting my wife's car with a bike pump.

Correct. The shop is cold and dirty and there's not a lot of dancing involved, so the other one stayed upstairs.

This is why I mount my skis in the living room.

[EWG]

Correct. The shop is cold and dirty and there's not a lot of dancing involved, so the other one stayed upstairs.

Everything about this story was funny. I apologize for laughing at your expense.

[alfajores]

Reminder that the cheaper Look SPX have nearly as much heel elasticity as the pivots, and much more than the STHs. Better heel and toe than the Attack. I like them. In our house, however, we have Pivots, SPX, Attacks and Squires.

Salomon STH:

• Elasticity – Toe: 52 mm
• Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm

Pivot:

• Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
• Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm

Look SPX:

• Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
• Elasticity – Heel: 27 mm

Marker Jester:

• Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
• Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm

Tyrolia Attack:

• Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
• Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm

No love in this thread for the Knee Bindings. I have never rode them, but everyone I have met and spoken to that ride them love them, Many of the instructors I have met using them say they are fantastic. I will attest that I have not met a patroller on them but suspect that is due to a lack of prodeal, second hand, and durability vs Pivots.

They state they have "Maximum" elasticity and also have lateral elasticity on the heels due to the design.

Any thoughts or insight?

[Lord Thomas]

While we're on the Knee topic, what about the protector? Any beta after the first full season? Having a dildo heel I'm curious about how much vertical heel elasticity it has.

[PeachesNCream]

What binding is the most shock absorbing/has the most dampening? Is this something that has been measured or all anectodical? Is this somehow related to elasticity? I seem to hear pivots and STH2s used most with these terms but it all seems to be anectodical

Edit, looks like kootenayskier addressed it pretty well and said STH2 is the winner. Curious to hear other's thoughts