Alpine bindings - current best?

[Shorty_J]

While we're on the Knee topic, what about the protector? Any beta after the first full season? Having a dildo heel I'm curious about how much vertical heel elasticity it has.

Gregorys started a thread on them but I don't think he has a full year in them yet.

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[singlesline]

I'm curious about strives if anyone has experience with them. They're available cheap to me, low stand height and light weight is appealing but I'm wary of a first year binding

Got a day on Strive demos and came away feeling unsure.

1. Didn't have the satisfying clunk of the STH2. The Strive 16 probably does (since its heel looks identical to the STH2), this new one for the 14/demo looks more like the Warden 11 heel.
2. Had a sketchy prerelease. Landed a 360 on a small park jump and as I skied away from it, suddenly I walked out of one ski. Went for a slide and crashed into a pole knocking the other ski off. Don't know exactly what happened, but I was halfway down the landing, skiing straight, and suddenly it was gone. Sure felt like I walked out of it, but when my buddy brought my ski down, the heel was still "up" (is it possible to come out of the heel without it snapping back down?).

I went and checked the settings after the crash, DINs were right, but forward pressure was slightly out of spec. I clicked the heel one position forward which put the indicator in the correct range. I didn't have any more releases that day (but I also can't believe being just a mm or so out of range on the forward pressure would be that big of a deal).

Can't really comment too much on how they actually ski as I was testing an unfamiliar ski (deathwish 104). There was a lot of refrozen chunk and I feel like they didn't feel quite as damp as the driver toes, but it seemed to ski well overall. Again, unfamiliar ski and everything, but I felt like I could maybe tell that they weighed less/had lower center of mass?

So I'm not yet in the "start hoarding STH2s" camp, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

[1000-oaks]

STH2's put me in the "hoarding STH1's" camp...

Salomon updates appear to be about reducing manufacturing cost, and not improving performance.

[BlazersTimbers503]

STH2's put me in the "hoarding STH1's" camp...

Salomon updates appear to be about reducing manufacturing cost, and not improving performance.

I’ve been a fan of the STH2’s but never had the chance to ride the STH1’s. What did they change? Less metal, I’m guessing?

[singlesline]

I dunno--I went from S9XX to STH2 and never had a real complaint about them. Never skied an STH1...

Never been big on the "gotta be metal" camp, plastic seems to work pretty well for me. Don't run my DINs super high though, which might be a factor (always counter-intuitive to me that longer BSL==lower DIN...the wrench analogy makes sense, but it still feels "wrong").

[toast2266]

I’ve been a fan of the STH2’s but never had the chance to ride the STH1’s. What did they change? Less metal, I’m guessing?

The STH2's are a bit more plastic-y, but they gained the floating heel track that lets the ski flex a bit better. I never had a problem with either the 1's or 2's aside from the usual toe wings loosening up, but I'm also in the "don't need a crazy high DIN" camp.

[singlesline]

aside from the usual toe wings loosening up

I take it back, I also have that complaint. Occasionally I have to grab a screwdriver and tighten the wings. I usually notice it wiggling my feet around on the chair and finding one ski has developed play.

Come to think of it, I haven't done it in a while. Maybe my screw corroded and is stuck in place now?

[altacoup]

Sth2 doesn’t develop the heel wiggle that every sth1 develops. That said I’ve had issues with heel prerelease on sth2 and never on sth1.


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[1000-oaks]

STH2 is plastic heel housing on a plastic track. The STH1 heel housing is more narrow, but it does have metal tabs keyed into an extruded aluminum track. It's true the STH1 housing can wiggle in the track without a boot clamped, but does it happen much while skiing? (I'm not a big guy and haven't experienced it.) Still gotta be more rigid than Pivot heels though.

[SnowMachine]

Got a day on Strive demos and came away feeling unsure.

1. Didn't have the satisfying clunk of the STH2. The Strive 16 probably does (since its heel looks identical to the STH2), this new one for the 14/demo looks more like the Warden 11 heel.
2. Had a sketchy prerelease. Landed a 360 on a small park jump and as I skied away from it, suddenly I walked out of one ski. Went for a slide and crashed into a pole knocking the other ski off. Don't know exactly what happened, but I was halfway down the landing, skiing straight, and suddenly it was gone. Sure felt like I walked out of it, but when my buddy brought my ski down, the heel was still "up" (is it possible to come out of the heel without it snapping back down?).

I went and checked the settings after the crash, DINs were right, but forward pressure was slightly out of spec. I clicked the heel one position forward which put the indicator in the correct range. I didn't have any more releases that day (but I also can't believe being just a mm or so out of range on the forward pressure would be that big of a deal).

Can't really comment too much on how they actually ski as I was testing an unfamiliar ski (deathwish 104). There was a lot of refrozen chunk and I feel like they didn't feel quite as damp as the driver toes, but it seemed to ski well overall. Again, unfamiliar ski and everything, but I felt like I could maybe tell that they weighed less/had lower center of mass?

So I'm not yet in the "start hoarding STH2s" camp, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

16's have the same thunk as STH2'S. Mine are not demos, so maybe apples to oranges. They ski just fine. My toe height adjustment has needed to be adjusted twice already (toes working loose after setting them correctly before riding). If that keeps up they'll get shit canned for Pivots (I'm a fanboi that was talked into Strives).

[SnowMachine]

In case I haven't mentioned it before, I like Pivots.

[skaredshtles]

Didn't somebody post a retailer that was blowing out bindings recently? I find myself suddenly in the market for some new bindings...

[tenB]

Didn't somebody post a retailer that was blowing out bindings recently? I find myself suddenly in the market for some new bindings...

The House was selling STH2-13s dirt cheap. They’re all gone and the company looks to be going out of business.

I would favor the SHT2 over STH1 any day. Updated and more durable materials, a wider and more secure heel mounting system and most importantly, a much smaller tolerance for spring and release margins. Almost all STH1 binders had a DIN of +/- 2 on tested releases vs actual DIN numbers. I’m not seeing that on the STH2 models, 13 or 16.

The Strives have too much plastic and look too shiftish to me.

[m5d5cb]

I've been mounting all of my skis with Tyrolia Attack2 13 bindings. They can often be had for $100. Never had any mechanical issues.
Easy to step in and out of and by now I'm quite accustomed to mounting and adjusting them.

Never tried a Pivot or STH2. One advantage I could see with STH2 is the toe is narrower with the spring facing forward instead of sideways, for really narrow GS or groomer skis.

[ClayCole]

What binding is the most shock absorbing/has the most dampening? Is this something that has been measured or all anectodical? Is this somehow related to elasticity? I seem to hear pivots and STH2s used most with these terms but it all seems to be anectodical

Edit, looks like kootenayskier addressed it pretty well and said STH2 is the winner. Curious to hear other's thoughts

In my experience the Pivot 18 with DIN set to 10 has excellent shock absorbing properties. So does the STH2 16 set at 10.

I think that running a binding with a high max DIN with the actual DIN set to the low end of the range provides better shock absorbing. My theory is that the DIN spring for the Pivot 18 has a higher spring rate resulting in a steeper force vs displacement curve. The release value (or DIN) setting is based on the force to release, not the force to start to move the binding. If the curve is steeper, it requires a low force to move the binding a little and access the elasticity during regular skiing, but the force ramps up quickly to keep you in. If the spring rate curve is flatter (as in a lower max-DIN binding) then the force to move the binding a little to access elasticity is very similar to the release force, meaning the binding doesn't move at all until you apply enough force to release, then it releases all at once.

The "you should run high DIN bindings even if you set them to a low DIN setting" theory is controversial, but I like Pivot 18's set to 10.

[SupreChicken]

This is unfortunately a very subjective question. It really depends on what you value in an alpine binder. If ease of entry is top on your list, it’s hard to beat a Tyrolia or STH. If elasticity is your highest priority or “shock absorption” it’s really hard to beat a pivot. If you’re sensitive to ramp and you want your binding to be as flat as possible, the pivot appears to be the best with Tyrolia as a close second.

I have found over the years that I am very sensitive to ramp, so I have transitioned away from the STH2. I will still use wardens, but I prefer attacks and pivots. I always try to nab an extra pair of pivots once Corbetts puts them on sale for less than 225 USD.

For reference the STH2 has a ramp of +6 between the heel and the toe. Wardens are +3. Attacks are +2 pivots with the grip walk AFD are +1.

Touring clamps for reference.

Duke PT are +10. Tectons are +8. shifts are +9. Voyagers are +7. G3Z is +4, Alpinists are +2.

I cannot tell the difference between a pivot 18 set to 10 and a pivot 15 set to 10.

Blister published an Alpine binders round up a few years ago, that I think is still very useful to read. I want them to update it

[NuclearNachos21]

Blister published an Alpine binders round up a few years ago, that I think is still very useful to read. I want them to update it

seems like they updated it recently but only for blister members. agree on it being super useful, hope they make the updates available to nonmembers in a bit
https://blisterreview.com/flash-revi...nding-shootout


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[Lord Thomas]

For reference the STH2 has a ramp of +6 between the heel and the toe. Wardens are +3. Attacks are +2 pivots with the grip walk AFD are +1.

Fore reference I just measured the afd height on an older set of FKS 185 race, a Pivot 12 with alpine afd from a few years ago, and a current set of Pivot 12's with the GW afd. The afd on the two newer toes was the same height (at least within a few thousands of an inch) and the old 185 toe was 2.5mm lower.

[mr_pretzel]

Fore reference I just measured the afd height on an older set of FKS 185 race, a Pivot 12 with alpine afd from a few years ago, and a current set of Pivot 12's with the GW afd. The afd on the two newer toes was the same height (at least within a few thousands of an inch) and the old 185 toe was 2.5mm lower.

On metal pivot toes: 5mm for old DIN afd, 1mm for GW afd, CAST 2-3mm depending on afd.

[Caucasian Asian]

I've been on the 900/912/914/916/STH16 binding train since about 2001. I like them a lot. They have their weaknesses like any binding, but I find that for me they work the best.

The toes and the wings are a constant complaint, but I have never had an issue with them loosening or breaking off. I think that most people break them by kicking into their toes too hard. As for the wings loosening, I feel that most people tighten them too much and that puts strain on the threads and causes them to strip out.

One of the features I like the most is the adjustable toe height. I ski in boots with touring soles and while that is not recommended, I have never had an issue with my toes releasing or not releasing on me.

[1000-oaks]

^ It's also super easy to forget to fully open the wings when snapping a new boot into the binding. The camming force from the heel will drive the boot up against the stop in the center of the toe, driving the wings apart with tremendous force. If the wings are adjusted for a narrower boot, there's no way the adjustment mechanism will survive.

[altacoup]

^^^
Just another reason salomons suck. I have 2 different alpine boots. A work boot and a day off boot. I don’t ski my day off boot in salomons because I don’t want to adjust the binding. With pivots or attack 1s (not 2s) I can just click in and ski in either boot. In the last decade salomon sth2 is the only binding I’ve ever prereleased from. I’ll only use them when they’re beyond dirt cheap. Corbetts has pivots for under $200 usd right now. And attack2s are always available for cheap. I haven’t skied a marker in over 2 decades (besides the alpinist which is great) but they can’t be worse than the current salomon heel which is shared across all the alpine bindings. Pivots under $200 is the way.

[Muggydude]

I've skied STH2s, Attacks, Attack2s, Pivot 15/18s. Markers too but we don't talk about those.

STH2s gave me pre-releases more than any other bindings. I disliked the toe adjustments too - seemed like the screws occasionally backed off and made swapping boots/bindings to different skis more annoying. Used the for a season, sold them all.

I've had 1 pre-release on Pivot 18s in the past 6 years. I was honestly pretty surprised, and it spooked me. Just slightly off-kilter landing into some variable snow where the tip dove a bit. I was able to ski out on one leg. I consider that a fluke, perhaps. I put these on hard-pack and crud-busting skis.

I've ejected from my attack2's on quite a few occasions (and I'm happy about it). I generally put those on my powder skis, and that means I'm jumping off shit and skiing fast. So I'd say they've always released when I've wanted them to (in crashes) and have done their job of saving my knees. Can't really recall a time they popped off when I didn't want them to. The forward pressure adjustment is a lot easier to set than STH2, but less fine-tuned. They have a big heel track range which is nice for sharing skis too.

I enjoy the 1st gen attack demos as well, metal heel track and low stack height make them the best demo bindings IMO. I'm hoarding 4 pairs for various skis that I tend to pickup that can only be mounted again with demo bindings. I will say I run my attacks at 1 DIN higher than my Pivots (11 vs 10).

[SnowMachine]

16's have the same thunk as STH2'S. Mine are not demos, so maybe apples to oranges. They ski just fine. My toe height adjustment has needed to be adjusted twice already (toes working loose after setting them correctly before riding). If that keeps up they'll get shit canned for Pivots (I'm a fanboi that was talked into Strives).

Revisiting this thread. I have 30+ days on the Strives now. Once the toe pieces settled in they haven’t needed adjustment. They’re like a STH2 minus the wing adjustment. As far as I know the delta is the same. I think they ski great. I’d probably prefer them to the STH2, but I still have STH2’s that I picked up for almost nothing. I’m mountain a pair this week.

For next year I’ll have two types of bindings spread across 5 skis. 3 pairs of Pivots. 2 pairs of STH2’s. The Solly’s will ride the more rear mounted skis. The Pivots go on progressive mounted skis.

They all work fine for me.

[gregorys]

Gregorys started a thread on them but I don't think he has a full year in them yet.
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I don't have a "full" season on them, though I've skied *most* of this season on a pair. (Until recently, I only had one pair and might ski the day on both Attack2 and Protectors, so my use wasn't exclusive.) I'll probably post an update on the Protector thread about them, but the TLDR; version is.

I'm very happy with them.
Step in is pretty easy.
Retention is good. (Generally release when they should, and don't when they shouldn't.)
They are quite heavy, but I don't care/notice.
The fact that they interop with the Attack2 rails is a huge plus for me.
Don't love the brakes - which don't interop (they're different than the Attack2 demo brakes - P vs F, IIRC). They're also kind of fussy getting on/off the rail. They'll also semi-freeze to the heel piece making breaking the parts down inconvenient, which is mildly annoying. (If you don't remove them from the rail regularly, you probably won't care at all.)

I can't really say much about the lateral heel release. I assume it works and would protect me in the applicable situation.
It certainly hasn't seemed to cause any issues.

Overall, I'd totally do it again.
Potential protection from an injury that could easily keep me from skiing again, since I'm in my mid-50's, and ACL repairs at my age are more uncertain.
I ski quite aggressively/hard and don't find any issues with them.

[Edit to add: I'm referring to the Protector MN, not the Protector PR version. There are two versions of the Protector - one that's a more mass-appeal (PR) one and the Attack/MN, which uses the same rails as the Attack2 demo binding.]