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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennettc14 View Post
    Should we pre order through dealer or not necessary? Would like to try a pair of the CS professional liners.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I'd say pre-order. And that goes for almost anything boot-related for next year. We're running at full capacity and boots are (again) basically made-to-order next year. There won't be random stock floating around, so make sure you are able to secure what you want to have.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    Backland XTD Carbon 120

    Attachment 443511

    Quick Stats
    Imagine a Hawx Prime with 74 of better-than-Backland cuff ROM, a 120 flex and a full rubber touring norm sole (or GripWalk if you want).
    1390g / 26.5
    100mm, medium volume last (based on Hawx Prime)
    Same cuff height (front & rear) as Hawx Prime
    New lower shell construction blends an overlap & open-throat construction together for the best of easy on/off and foot wrapping
    Frictionless Mirror Pivots deliver a more free-gliding cuff than Backland (they are symmetrical & parallel in their orientation)
    New ski/walk mechanism allows for 3 forward lean settings (no flip chips) 13-15-17
    Available as a touring norm ISO 9523 boot or as GripWalk (its not swappable, just made either way)
    This may already be answered somewhere in the previous 4 pages, but how punchable will the forefoot/toe area of this boot be for width? I typically need more width there and I know some touring boots have a hard time holding the punch. Also, any word on the warmth of this boot? Thanks!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    I'd say pre-order. And that goes for almost anything boot-related for next year. We're running at full capacity and boots are (again) basically made-to-order next year. There won't be random stock floating around, so make sure you are able to secure what you want to have.
    Is demand just up that much?

  4. #104
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    Does that go the the normal (non professional) xtd liners too?

    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    I'd say pre-order. And that goes for almost anything boot-related for next year. We're running at full capacity and boots are (again) basically made-to-order next year. There won't be random stock floating around, so make sure you are able to secure what you want to have.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    This may already be answered somewhere in the previous 4 pages, but how punchable will the forefoot/toe area of this boot be for width? I typically need more width there and I know some touring boots have a hard time holding the punch. Also, any word on the warmth of this boot? Thanks!
    Memory Fit, not a ton. Traditional stretching, very successful. The Backland XTD Carbon 120 is a carbon-loaded shell, but the carbon percentage is not as high as the Backland Carbon model. This means it will resist low-pressure fit systems like Memory Fit (more than normal PA) but still be fine for high-pressure fit systems like presses and the like.

    Warmth is quite subjective, but it's got a lot of high density foam in the liner which traps heat well.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Is demand just up that much?
    Yes, which has its ups & downs. Great that the interest is there, but it's proving to be quite tricky to keep up with it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    Does that go the the normal (non professional) xtd liners too?
    Less so there (as they tend to get over shadowed by the Professional versions) but they still adhere to the same reality.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    Memory Fit, not a ton. Traditional stretching, very successful. The Backland XTD Carbon 120 is a carbon-loaded shell, but the carbon percentage is not as high as the Backland Carbon model. This means it will resist low-pressure fit systems like Memory Fit (more than normal PA) but still be fine for high-pressure fit systems like presses and the like.

    Warmth is quite subjective, but it's got a lot of high density foam in the liner which traps heat well.
    Ah, I'm not that familiar with punching vs stretching, I think I use punch as a catch all term to mean change the shape. So you are saying that these should work well to make them wider in the toe box?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Ah, I'm not that familiar with punching vs stretching, I think I use punch as a catch all term to mean change the shape. So you are saying that these should work well to make them wider in the toe box?
    With traditional ways of boot fitting (punching/stretching) it means using a mechanical or hydraulic tool to widen the shell. These methods generate more force and will expand the shell further than Memory Fit, which relies on the foot's own pressure to expand the shell.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    With traditional ways of boot fitting (punching/stretching) it means using a mechanical or hydraulic tool to widen the shell. These methods generate more force and will expand the shell further than Memory Fit, which relies on the foot's own pressure to expand the shell.
    Awesome, thanks. Ill add these to the shortlist for new boots.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by rion View Post
    Just in case others don't regularly listen, here's @onenerdykid getting nerdy with Jonathan Ellsworth on the Gear:30 podcast regarding the new Atomic boots, boa upgrades, and related topics:

    https://pca.st/episode/f9eafb0b-d9d2...6-c92ff0f03bf0
    I'm about halfway through; another great listen for the gear nerds. Thanks Matt for doing these!

    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    Sorry... there are about 10-12 new alpine boots I want to make before I get to tele.
    Curious what these/some of these would be?

  11. #111
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    Matt, always like the podcasts and appreciate the help and input you provide here. With the changes coming next year to the XTD, it seems it's getting closer and closer to the ultra S, especially with the gnar bar option. What would make someone chose the Ultra S over the XTD?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by oetk2 View Post
    Matt, always like the podcasts and appreciate the help and input you provide here. With the changes coming next year to the XTD, it seems it's getting closer and closer to the ultra S, especially with the gnar bar option. What would make someone chose the Ultra S over the XTD?
    Some people just don't need the features that come on the Hawx Ultra XTD and they're better off with less complication & can save a solid chunk of money with the regular Ultra. For others, aesthetics matter- they just like how fixed cuff boots look.

  13. #113
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    The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    Some people just don't need the features that come on the Hawx Ultra XTD and they're better off with less complication & can save a solid chunk of money with the regular Ultra. For others, aesthetics matter- they just like how fixed cuff boots look.
    That would be me. Less shit to break. Less shit to wobble. Ive had poor experiences with extra features I rarely use or can get by without, and while that might not be fair to the current crop I much prefer simple for resort skiing. I wish I could still buy a two buckle ghost.
    Last edited by Mustonen; 01-27-2023 at 04:53 AM.
    focus.

  14. #114
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    Great thread, thanks ONK. Some questions:

    1. I'm a little out of the loop on the Atomic naming convention. For next season, are the Hawx Ultra XTD 130 and Hawx Prime XTD 130 the same boot but different fits? Like basically Ultra = LV and Prime = MV?

    2. I love the progressive flex of an overlap boot (vs the linear flex of a cabrio) and I like how well PU skis so the new PU XTD offerings seem great. But I've taken to cabrio boots for touring because of they walk so well. Any thoughts on how well the Ultra/Prime XTD (PU) walks compared to the Lupo HD (without the tongue)? I don't care much about stated ROM, but I care a lot about usable frictionless ROM.

    3. What's the size run on the Backland XTD 120?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    This may already be answered somewhere in the previous 4 pages, but how punchable will the forefoot/toe area of this boot be for width? I typically need more width there and I know some touring boots have a hard time holding the punch. Also, any word on the warmth of this boot? Thanks!
    The new 100mm last on the Backland XTD is much more "wide foot-friendly" than any of the previous Backlands; I was able to wear one out of the box for ~4 hours a few nights ago (under Matt's direction) and my right forefoot is around 119mm. It wasn't a cold night but the liner feels much more substantial than other boots in the 1300g range, so hopefully a bit warmer as well.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    That would be me. Less shit to break. Less shit to wobble. I’ve had poor experiences with extra features I rarely use or can get by without, and while that might not be fair to the current crop I much prefer simple for resort skiing. I wish I could still buy a two buckle ghost….
    Totally, especially if people already have a dedicated touring boot.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Great thread, thanks ONK. Some questions:

    1. I'm a little out of the loop on the Atomic naming convention. For next season, are the Hawx Ultra XTD 130 and Hawx Prime XTD 130 the same boot but different fits? Like basically Ultra = LV and Prime = MV?

    2. I love the progressive flex of an overlap boot (vs the linear flex of a cabrio) and I like how well PU skis so the new PU XTD offerings seem great. But I've taken to cabrio boots for touring because of they walk so well. Any thoughts on how well the Ultra/Prime XTD (PU) walks compared to the Lupo HD (without the tongue)? I don't care much about stated ROM, but I care a lot about usable frictionless ROM.

    3. What's the size run on the Backland XTD 120?
    1. Ultra = 98mm/LV, Prime = 100mm/MV, Magna = 102mm/HV - all are based on the same foot shape, just scaled up and down to make sense for their volume category.

    2. Overlap boots will always suffer a bit here in comparison to open throat boots. The overlaps will provide a better wrapping fit and more progressive flex, but less free-floating cuff ROM; the open throat boots will offer easier step in/out and allow for more forward ROM while touring, but less foot wrapping and less progressive flex characteristics. That's just the inherent compromises/choices we have to make.

    3. men's models are 24/24.5 - 30/30.5, women's models are 22/22.5 - 27/27.5. All shells are unique, true shells (no big shell, small liner stuff going on).

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    1. Ultra = 98mm/LV, Prime = 100mm/MV, Magna = 102mm/HV - all are based on the same foot shape, just scaled up and down to make sense for their volume category.
    Bold idea, but hear me out rebrand to Hawx (XTD) LV/MV/HV to make it easier on consumers, and then beat your French Amer cousins over the head until they drop whatever the current iteration of S/max/alpha/pro/supra/access in favor of S/Pro LV/MV/HV as well?

    Just spitballing here.


    Actual question: can we expect BOA to migrate into Prime and non XTD boots as well over the next two to four seasons?

    New boots look sick though. Backland XTD seems like a real winner for many consumers to me so far.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    1. Ultra = 98mm/LV, Prime = 100mm/MV, Magna = 102mm/HV - all are based on the same foot shape, just scaled up and down to make sense for their volume category.
    But next year's Hawx Ultra XTD and Hawx Prime XTD are identical other than volume? So I could get a very good sense of the stiffness and walkability by trying on this year's Prime XTD 130?


    2. Overlap boots will always suffer a bit here in comparison to open throat boots. The overlaps will provide a better wrapping fit and more progressive flex, but less free-floating cuff ROM; the open throat boots will offer easier step in/out and allow for more forward ROM while touring, but less foot wrapping and less progressive flex characteristics. That's just the inherent compromises/choices we have to make.
    Sure, of course. I'll guess I'll have to wait until my friends get the PU XTD or try them on myself.

    3. men's models are 24/24.5 - 30/30.5, women's models are 22/22.5 - 27/27.5. All shells are unique, true shells (no big shell, small liner stuff going on).
    I have always loved that you guys don't do toe dams, etc. So the women's top version will be a 115 flex? Is it as stiff as the Hawx XTD 115? My wife has both the old Backland (with a men's tongue) and the old Hawx XTD 115, and definitely would love something that walks closer to the Backland but skis closer to the Hawx XTD 115. She's very excited about the new Backland XTD Carbon 115 W. I know you were saying the lower has less carbon than other carbon-infused plastics, so it punches decently. Is it also possible to stretch the calf area of the Backland XTD Carbon 115 W? My wife has stretched this area on all her previous Atomic touring boots.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 01-27-2023 at 02:10 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Bold idea, but hear me out… rebrand to Hawx (XTD) LV/MV/HV to make it easier on consumers, and then beat your French Amer cousins over the head until they drop whatever the current iteration of S/max/alpha/pro/supra/access in favor of S/Pro LV/MV/HV as well?

    Just spitballing here.


    Actual question: can we expect BOA to migrate into Prime and non XTD boots as well over the next two to four seasons?

    New boots look sick though. Backland XTD seems like a real winner for many consumers to me so far.
    Glad you are liking things so far, let me know when you are able to try them on and/or demo them.

    Re: last naming - this was definitely a topic at the beginning, but we ended up deciding on names vs. volumes. I certainly can't vouch for how the Frenchies are handling it, that's beyond confusing.

  21. #121
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    Im still loving my OG XTD 130s. I also love my resort Hawx Ultra 130 Ss I just wish they were a bit beefier/heavier to make them as damp feeling as my old Lange RX130s. But for me personally, the fit is just so dialed for my foot that its hard to justify trying any boots other than the Hawx series. If I had a vote, Id vote that the XTDs scratch the itch for the resort rippers looking for a lightweight boot and as an added bonus - you can tour on them! Then for the resort rippers looking for a heavier, stable, non-plug all-mountain boot - there you have the non-XTD Hawx Ultra 130s. Sadly, the extra tech in the XTD and the additional money it costs to make probably makes that wish impossible.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    But next year's Hawx Ultra XTD and Hawx Prime XTD are identical other than volume? So I could get a very good sense of the stiffness and walkability by trying on this year's Prime XTD 130?


    Sure, of course. I'll guess I'll have to wait until my friends get the PU XTD or try them on myself.

    I have always loved that you guys don't do toe dams, etc. So the women's top version will be a 115 flex? Is it as stiff as the Hawx XTD 115? My wife has both the old Backland (with a men's tongue) and the old Hawx XTD 115, and definitely would love something that walks closer to the Backland but skis closer to the Hawx XTD 115. She's very excited about the new Backland XTD Carbon 115 W. I know you were saying the lower has less carbon than other carbon-infused plastics, so it punches decently. Is it also possible to stretch the calf area of the Backland XTD Carbon 115 W? My wife has stretched this area on all her previous Atomic touring boots.
    Re: Ultra XTD vs Prime XTD - more similarities than differences, but the main difference is the sole/grip pads. Ultra XTD has a glued-on sole, Prime XTD has a screwed-on sole. Otherwise (aside from BOA) same parts/features/benefits.

    Re: Backland XTD 115 - Flex/skiing performance is very close to the Prime XTD 115; not 1:1, but definitely stiffer/more powerful than a Backland Carbon. The cuff is definitely able to be stretched (smaller American footballs are awesome for this) but I would first try the AFS cuff spoiler. This is a spoiler that is clicked into the cuff to provide the same cuff volume as a Prime/Prime XTD W cuff but when removed lowers the cuff height by 6mm and increases the cuff circumference by over 10mm (which is more than going up a cuff size). All of our women's Hawx & Hawx XTD boots have this feature but now it is on Backland XTD too.

  23. #123
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    Thanks Matt!!
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  24. #124
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    You already have my money on both ultras and xtds but I agree with this. A hawx xtd fit, lean and gripwalk soles at a redster cs weight would have my attention as my next pair of boots. I am hoping moving to a professional liner in a couple years will let me get a good number of seasons out of my ultras so that boot can wait a few seasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazersTimbers503 View Post
    Im still loving my OG XTD 130s. I also love my resort Hawx Ultra 130 Ss I just wish they were a bit beefier/heavier to make them as damp feeling as my old Lange RX130s. But for me personally, the fit is just so dialed for my foot that its hard to justify trying any boots other than the Hawx series. If I had a vote, Id vote that the XTDs scratch the itch for the resort rippers looking for a lightweight boot and as an added bonus - you can tour on them! Then for the resort rippers looking for a heavier, stable, non-plug all-mountain boot - there you have the non-XTD Hawx Ultra 130s. Sadly, the extra tech in the XTD and the additional money it costs to make probably makes that wish impossible.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazersTimbers503 View Post
    I’m still loving my OG XTD 130’s. I also love my resort Hawx Ultra 130 S’s… I just wish they were a bit beefier/heavier to make them as damp feeling as my old Lange RX130’s. But for me personally, the fit is just so dialed for my foot that it’s hard to justify trying any boots other than the Hawx series. If I had a vote, I’d vote that the XTD’s scratch the itch for the resort rippers looking for a lightweight boot… and as an added bonus - you can tour on them! Then for the resort rippers looking for a heavier, stable, non-plug all-mountain boot - there you have the non-XTD Hawx Ultra 130’s. Sadly, the extra tech in the XTD and the additional money it costs to make probably makes that wish impossible.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    My 0.02€ - If you love the fit of a Hawx Ultra, then it is very easy to make a Redster CS 130 work for you. This boot is more stable than an RX 130 (or even an RS 130) and with a couple of extras (dual component lifters and ShockStopper boot board), you will have the same resort freeride weapon that our FWT athletes are using. For a pure resort weapon, nothing beats it.

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