The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

**MD12** · 01-22-2023, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Our new website has some growing pains it seems. The 22/23 all black/rust colored Hawx Prime XTD 130 is full PU, and so are all of the other models in the range. Correct- Prolite is a construction technique.

Is this true for the Hawx prime ultra xtd too? All pu and no grilamid?

**MD12** · 01-22-2023, 08:51 AM

Fuckin badass. I will be replacing my xtd and ultra pro with one boot if it’s the best of both worlds. Of course with zipfit gfts (sorry I just don’t want to ski without zip fits - I’ve tried the pro liner and went back immediately).

**Lindahl** · 01-22-2023, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Yes - it's a more bomber new ski/walk mechanism and a better interface to the cuff.

Do the screws have more thread penetration or surface area? Or is the surface area of the upper lever attachment block larger? Or is the beefinees only added at the bottom part of the lever mechanism? Curious to know if the new beefiness would have prevented me from stripping the screws on landings.

**onenerdykid** · 01-22-2023, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Do the screws have more thread penetration or surface area? Or is the surface area of the upper lever attachment block larger? Or is the beefinees only added at the bottom part of the lever mechanism? Curious to know if the new beefiness would have prevented me from stripping the screws.

Same screw length (meaning it has full thread engagement with the nut), same cuff interface as Prime XTD (IMO an improvement over first gen Ultra XTD) and all new "arm".

FWIW, up until this season, Aymar Navarro has always competed on a stock, first gen Ultra XTD 130. Hasn't broken a mechanism, just either himself or the mountain haha. I think there was just something odd going on with yours, or a screw came loose just before your last drop kind of thing.

**CaliBrit** · 01-22-2023, 04:45 PM

Seeing as there are lots of Atomic aficionados here. How does the hawk ultra fit vs Tecnica Mach1 LV? How do the instep heights compare?

**GoldenBC** · 01-22-2023, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Seeing as there are lots of Atomic aficionados here. How does the hawk ultra fit vs Tecnica Mach1 LV? How do the instep heights compare?

Mach 1 is a touch lower instep. Neither were tight on me so hard to say exactly. Mach 1 has a thick tongue which adds to peoples problem. Hawx ultra has a much smaller cuff diameter which holds the bottom of the tibia tighter.

**CaliBrit** · 01-22-2023, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Mach 1 is a touch lower instep. Neither were tight on me so hard to say exactly. Mach 1 has a thick tongue which adds to peoples problem. Hawx ultra has a much smaller cuff diameter which holds the bottom of the tibia tighter.

Good info thanks.

**bodywhomper** · 01-22-2023, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Sorry... there are about 10-12 new alpine boots I want to make before I get to tele.

So like 24/25?!

lease:

**Lindahl** · 01-22-2023, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Same screw length (meaning it has full thread engagement with the nut), same cuff interface as Prime XTD (IMO an improvement over first gen Ultra XTD) and all new "arm".

FWIW, up until this season, Aymar Navarro has always competed on a stock, first gen Ultra XTD 130. Hasn't broken a mechanism, just either himself or the mountain haha. I think there was just something odd going on with yours, or a screw came loose just before your last drop kind of thing.

Quite possible. I did have a pretty significant impact on buried avy debris in a landing at about 30-40 days in, where I landed it but snapped a ski in half and sprained my ankle, which could have compromised it some. Could have also rattled loose some inbounds before I went out the gate on the day it blew. I'll give em another go, I guess.

**Cork7 Belly Flop** · 01-23-2023, 12:24 AM

How does the flex of a Redster CS 110 compare to the Hawx Ultra S 130?

**Jean Poudreuse** · 01-23-2023, 06:07 AM

How many memory fit can we do without altering the plastic? Is it possible to do an "empty" memoryfit to reobtain the initial form of the boots?

**Shorty_J** · 01-23-2023, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Cork7 Belly Flop

How does the flex of a Redster CS 110 compare to the Hawx Ultra S 130?

-20

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**Dee Hubbs** · 01-23-2023, 10:42 AM

Will the new Professional Liners, specifically Hawx XTD Professional be available to dealers by spring? Or will they not arrive to shops until their fall orders arrive?
The reason I ask is that I like to get new boots foamed in the spring when my feet are in "ski shape" and I can ski them with direct A-B comparison to my previous boots.
I find it hard to get new foam liners in the fall and try to understand if they are correct while getting back into ski (feet) shape.

**Ørion** · 01-23-2023, 11:53 AM

Just in case others don't regularly listen, here's @onenerdykid getting nerdy with Jonathan Ellsworth on the Gear:30 podcast regarding the new Atomic boots, boa upgrades, and related topics:

https://pca.st/episode/f9eafb0b-d9d2...6-c92ff0f03bf0

**kootenayskier** · 01-23-2023, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Unfortunately, it's an ROI problem. Going narrower than Ultra (i.e. Redster style fits) means producing very small quantities in relation to how expensive a boot is to make (ski boots are roughly 1 - 1.5 million € to develop). Combine that unfortunate reality with the fact that the touring market is a fraction of the size of the alpine market and it becomes quite hard to justify spending all that money to sell a few thousand pairs of boots globally. Sadly (and I am in this camp too) - don't hold your breath.

Bummer. The feature set on the new Backland XTD (as you laid out on the Blister podcast) sounds absolutely perfect, but for a fit that just isn’t owing to work.

You obviously know the market (and I don’t), it just seems weird that given there are at least a dozen brands now competing to sell medium volume ski touring boots, one brand could presumably specialize in and corner the market for low volume boots.

Perhaps it’s also an issue with the perverse incentives of the distribution system, where a large number of small retailers (brand’s actual customers) each can’t justify carrying a full size range of more risky inventory, rather than the total number of potential buyers. I appreciate that few if any shops are doing enough volume in this space to cater to those who would appreciate a Backland XTD with a Redster Club Sport last, but perhaps a hybrid direct sales model like what is starting to happen in the bike industry? One can dream.

**tenB** · 01-23-2023, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Seeing as there are lots of Atomic aficionados here. How does the hawk ultra fit vs Tecnica Mach1 LV? How do the instep heights compare?

I spent a few years in the Mach 1, LV 130 then moved to the Hawx 130 ultra last year. The Hawx ultra is a roomier fit than the mach 1 LV, especially in the forefoot. I needed extensive stretching in the forefoot of the mach 1, and zero work done in the forefoot of the Hawx ultra.

The mach1 LV has a lower instep and the boot feels heavier and more damp than the Hawx. The Hawx is lighter, more responsive and has more energy. It also a slightly higher tongue that sits higher on the shin.

The Hawx liner, especially the mimic pro is a significant performance upgrade from the stock tecnica liner, but the Hawx is hands down the coldest boot I’ve ever been in. The combination of that liner and the plastic makes them very cold even at 25 degrees F.

Bottom line, I like the way the Hawx fit and ski better, but I miss having warm feet.

**Ocean** · 01-25-2023, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

This is a bit overdue but dump your Atomic ski boot questions here and I will do my best to answer them in a semi-professional manner.

Looks like there is a new Redster boot on the way.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn1nxvYM...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Can you share any details please Matt? Will there be a Club Sport version?

**dcpnz** · 01-25-2023, 09:23 AM

Can anyone (ONK?) briefly summarize the timeline of changes to the ultra s 130 (non xtd) pls.

Was it 21/22 they got updates?
21 boot seems available cheap. Considering trying it since my ultra XTD fits better than my Lange RX.

**CaliBrit** · 01-25-2023, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by tenB

I spent a few years in the Mach 1, LV 130 then moved to the Hawx 130 ultra last year. The Hawx ultra is a roomier fit than the mach 1 LV, especially in the forefoot. I needed extensive stretching in the forefoot of the mach 1, and zero work done in the forefoot of the Hawx ultra.

The mach1 LV has a lower instep and the boot feels heavier and more damp than the Hawx. The Hawx is lighter, more responsive and has more energy. It also a slightly higher tongue that sits higher on the shin.

The Hawx liner, especially the mimic pro is a significant performance upgrade from the stock tecnica liner, but the Hawx is hands down the coldest boot I’ve ever been in. The combination of that liner and the plastic makes them very cold even at 25 degrees F.

Bottom line, I like the way the Hawx fit and ski better, but I miss having warm feet.

Much appreciated!

I wonder how a powerwrap would go in the HAWX with the smaller cuff diameter.

**onenerdykid** · 01-26-2023, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cork7 Belly Flop

How does the flex of a Redster CS 110 compare to the Hawx Ultra S 130?

CS 110 will feel softer in terms of forward flex, but have a more stable lower shell and a damper feel overall.

**onenerdykid** · 01-26-2023, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Jean Poudreuse

How many memory fit can we do without altering the plastic? Is it possible to do an "empty" memoryfit to reobtain the initial form of the boots?

Kinda hard to put a number to, since it isn't a scenario that you encounter in real boot fitting. The most I've ever seen someone do is 4 times but whether it's 5 or 6 shouldn't matter either in terms of plastic degradation. At that point, you should be more worried about the liner being packed out from too much oven time.

All plastics have a "memory" to them and they want to go back to their injected shape. If a boot has gone through the Memory Fit process (or even a stretch that is too big), you can put it back in the oven and it will return to almost its injected shape. Not perfectly, but darn close.

**onenerdykid** · 01-26-2023, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Will the new Professional Liners, specifically Hawx XTD Professional be available to dealers by spring? Or will they not arrive to shops until their fall orders arrive?
The reason I ask is that I like to get new boots foamed in the spring when my feet are in "ski shape" and I can ski them with direct A-B comparison to my previous boots.
I find it hard to get new foam liners in the fall and try to understand if they are correct while getting back into ski (feet) shape.

You might find a couple floating around (retailers & fitters often get test pairs), but nothing in real quantities until fall 2023. Serial production on these doesn't start until May-ish and then they are on a container for a while, hence fall delivery dates.

**onenerdykid** · 01-26-2023, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ocean

Looks like there is a new Redster boot on the way.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn1nxvYM...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Can you share any details please Matt? Will there be a Club Sport version?

That's just an existing Redster - the launch that H&N attended was for a new goggle that we are launching at the time of the Schladming Night Slalom.

**onenerdykid** · 01-26-2023, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by dcpnz

Can anyone (ONK?) briefly summarize the timeline of changes to the ultra s 130 (non xtd) pls.

Was it 21/22 they got updates?
21 boot seems available cheap. Considering trying it since my ultra XTD fits better than my Lange RX.

regular Hawx Ultra was updated with a new mold construction for 21/22, and were carried over (meaning no changes) into 22/23.

New liner tech coming for 23/24 (same main updates that Hawx Ultra XTD got, minus the Achilles flex zone)

**bennettc14** · 01-26-2023, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

You might find a couple floating around (retailers & fitters often get test pairs), but nothing in real quantities until fall 2023. Serial production on these doesn't start until May-ish and then they are on a container for a while, hence fall delivery dates.

Should we pre order through dealer or not necessary? Would like to try a pair of the CS professional liners.

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