The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

**kootenayskier** · 01-21-2023, 09:34 AM

Mat. As our insider with the brand that seems the most committed to and most successful in developing and selling ski boots in every niche from resort uphilling to WC slalom, are you able to share your perspective on why there isn’t a business case for adding a genuinely low volume (for arguments sake assume this would be equivalent to a Redster CS fit) version of your most popular touring boots. I don’t pretend to understand the economics of this, it’s just that I’ve been playing this game for a long time, and for myself, my wife, and a significant proportion of my skiing partners, we know what it’s like to have a great fitting lift serviced boot, but are forced to tour in boots that have way too much volume in all the wrong places. Will this ever change?

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by TexasGortex

Thanks! Including the 130? Both Evo and Backcountry list the 130 as PA but the 120 as PU. Atomic’s website (at least on my phone) doesn’t seem to specify unless I’m missing something. Prolite is a construction technique not material, right?

Our new website has some growing pains it seems. The 22/23 all black/rust colored Hawx Prime XTD 130 is full PU, and so are all of the other models in the range. Correct- Prolite is a construction technique.

**Lindahl** · 01-21-2023, 09:59 AM

Has the lever attachment on the walk mode on the Ultra XTD 130 been beefed up at all? I've had issues with blowing the lever out of walk mode (flexing it into walk mode), and ultimately stripping the screw holes which made the boot unusable. This was all on cliff landings. I really liked the boot, but it didn't even last 50 days, but maybe that's expected for a freerider? I'm about 190 w/o gear, so not small.

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Mat. As our insider with the brand that seems the most committed to and most successful in developing and selling ski boots in every niche from resort uphilling to WC slalom, are you able to share your perspective on why there isn’t a business case for adding a genuinely low volume (for arguments sake assume this would be equivalent to a Redster CS fit) version of your most popular touring boots. I don’t pretend to understand the economics of this, it’s just that I’ve been playing this game for a long time, and for myself, my wife, and a significant proportion of my skiing partners, we know what it’s like to have a great fitting lift serviced boot, but are forced to tour in boots that have way too much volume in all the wrong places. Will this ever change?

Unfortunately, it's an ROI problem. Going narrower than Ultra (i.e. Redster style fits) means producing very small quantities in relation to how expensive a boot is to make (ski boots are roughly 1 - 1.5 million € to develop). Combine that unfortunate reality with the fact that the touring market is a fraction of the size of the alpine market and it becomes quite hard to justify spending all that money to sell a few thousand pairs of boots globally. Sadly (and I am in this camp too) - don't hold your breath.

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Has the lever attachment on the walk mode on the Ultra XTD 130 been beefed up at all? I've had issues with blowing the lever out of walk mode (flexing it into walk mode), and ultimately stripping the screw holes which made the boot unusable. This was all on cliff landings. I really liked the boot, but it didn't even last 50 days, but maybe that's expected for a freerider?

Yes - it's a more bomber new ski/walk mechanism and a better interface to the cuff. Some of the studio images are from an early sample round and we had to use different parts (just for that photoshoot), but the image I posted and the on-snow images in the latest Blister reviews show the new ski/walk mechanism.

Just be aware that if screws start to loosen, then things can shear and fail. If you are changing forward lean settings or anything that involves removing the screws, always add some thread lock to the screws before you reinstall.

**Lindahl** · 01-21-2023, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Yes - it's a more bomber new ski/walk mechanism and a better interface to the cuff. Some of the studio images are from an early sample round and we had to use different parts (just for that photoshoot), but the image I posted and the on-snow images in the latest Blister reviews show the new ski/walk mechanism.

Just be aware that if screws start to loosen, then things can shear and fail. If you are changing forward lean settings or anything that involves removing the screws, always add some thread lock to the screws before you reinstall.

Awesome, stoked to try it out then. Excited that it moved to PU, as the old one definitely didn't flex as nicely as the Cochise. Curious to see how the new one compares now.

Yeah, I always made sure the screws were tight and secured with locktite in the morning after having a screw rattle loose on my Backlands (never adjusted the lean on either boot).

**Robik** · 01-21-2023, 10:27 AM

Would a new Ultra XTD with Gnarbar behave similarly to current year Hawx Ultra S in the resort?

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**Sashko** · 01-21-2023, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Slightly more toe room but still feeling like you are in the correct size & overall fit.

Great! What are other differences between 130 and 120 apart from the obvious one - the flex?

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Robik

Would a new Ultra XTD with Gnarbar behave similarly to current year Hawx Ultra S in the resort?

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Yessir

**Lindahl** · 01-21-2023, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Benneke10

I support the new changes. GW has no place on 1500g boots, and 1500g boots have no place in the resort. Putting GW on a boot implies that it will be good inbounds and you need more mass for that. On the flip side, touring on GW soles sucks and I appreciate the full rubber soles on the new Backland XTD.

Agreed. I felt the XTD was undergunned at the resort so only used it touring or when I was doing sidecountry with longer walks that justified a true touring boot. At the same time, it only walked marginally better than the Cochise with an intuition.

I also felt the class of 1400g boots never really walked that great, but the 1200g class didn't quite ski well enough to be an everyday touring boot. Hoping the Backland XTD fills that gap that walks like the old Backland, but skis (and weighs) closer to a 1400g boot.

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sashko

Great! What are other differences between 130 and 120 apart from the obvious one - the flex?

Material hardness (flex), power strap, and screwed vs. riveted hardware

**XavierD** · 01-21-2023, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Material hardness (flex), power strap, and screwed vs. riveted hardware

From a cost standpoint, how much does going riveted hardware save? If you don’t mind sharing.

**onenerdykid** · 01-21-2023, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by XavierD

From a cost standpoint, how much does going riveted hardware save? If you don’t mind sharing.

The screwed parts are marginally more expensive but it's the labor time that creates the issue. It takes way longer to assemble a boot with screwed hardware and this bottleneck during assembly drives up the cost of the boot like you wouldn't believe. Rivets go together far quicker and with less chance to mess it up.

**Sashko** · 01-21-2023, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Material hardness (flex), power strap, and screwed vs. riveted hardware

Looks like a better candidate for something with the CAST for a daily resort with occasional tours use than Dalbello Lupo fit-wise for me.

And I'm probably in minority, but I like BOA instead of buckles on the lower.

**rob stokes** · 01-21-2023, 01:23 PM

Can you share details on the gnarbar?

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**bean** · 01-21-2023, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Slightly more toe room but still feeling like you are in the correct size & overall fit.

Is there a number you can put to the “slightly more” part? Pricing on all of these?

**TexasGortex** · 01-21-2023, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Our new website has some growing pains it seems. The 22/23 all black/rust colored Hawx Prime XTD 130 is full PU, and so are all of the other models in the range. Correct- Prolite is a construction technique.

Last dumb question (for now)… can you soften a 130 to a 120 by removing a screw or anything? I don’t see how but it would be a nice fallback if my “friend” isn’t gnar enough.

**GoldenBC** · 01-21-2023, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by bean

Is there a number you can put to the “slightly more” part? Pricing on all of these?

I went from having to punch the shit out of the toe box on the originals to comfortable-ish. feeling more like a zero g in length (definitely tighter in width and height). I’d guess 2-3mm in length plus feeling less like the front top corner tapers down on top of your toe nail. My zero g measures exactly the same length as my Hawx ultras that were punched almost to the edge of the toe lug.

It’s just from the PU not shrinking so it’s an even sensation everywhere, even in forefoot width.

**bean** · 01-21-2023, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

I went from having to punch the shit out of the toe box on the originals to comfortable-ish. feeling more like a zero g in length (definitely tighter in width and height). I’d guess 2-3mm in length plus feeling less like the front top corner tapers down on top of your toe nail. My zero g measures exactly the same length as my Hawx ultras that were punched almost to the edge of the toe lug.

It’s just from the PU not shrinking so it’s an even sensation everywhere, even in forefoot width.

I'm between sizes on the ZG so that makes me sad to hear. Guess I'll have to shove my foot in a boot this fall. Maybe size down and do some punches. Original Hawx XTD fits me like a glove with just a shell mold and intuition.

**GoldenBC** · 01-21-2023, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by bean

I'm between sizes on the ZG so that makes me sad to hear. Guess I'll have to shove my foot in a boot this fall. Maybe size down and do some punches. Original Hawx XTD fits me like a glove with just a shell mold and intuition.

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t stick with the same size Hawx then. If you had to do a shell mold, this tiny difference will be perfect and you will have a touch more toe room. Normally people don’t downsize to get less toe room, they downsize to get the rest of the fit right. It’s nowhere near larger enough to justify downsizing.

**bodywhomper** · 01-22-2023, 01:04 AM

Can y’all come out with a tele boot model (or 3)?

**onenerdykid** · 01-22-2023, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by rob stokes

Can you share details on the gnarbar?

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The Gnar Bar is a way to turn your new 23/24 Hawx Ultra XTD or existing Prime XTD into a truly fixed-cuff boot with tech inserts. We really went to town on our new ski/walk mechanism for the Hawx XTD series and eliminated as much play as we could, but there is still a minute, little bit - it's just the nature of ski/walk mechanisms and they all have it. This is ultimately why fixed cuff boots with tech inserts exist. So, if you really want to eek that last 1% of downhill performance from your Hawx XTD boot, then you take off the stock ski/walk mechanism and slap on the Gnar Bar, which fully locks the cuff to the shell, no play whatsoever. And when you want to go on longer tours, just unscrew it and put the ski/walk mechanism back on.

**onenerdykid** · 01-22-2023, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by TexasGortex

Last dumb question (for now)… can you soften a 130 to a 120 by removing a screw or anything? I don’t see how but it would be a nice fallback if my “friend” isn’t gnar enough.

Unfortunately, no screw-removal-softening techniques on the XTD boots. Tell your friend to hit the gym

But in all seriousness, the unisex boots come down to 110 so most adult men should be able to find a flex that works for them.

**onenerdykid** · 01-22-2023, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t stick with the same size Hawx then. If you had to do a shell mold, this tiny difference will be perfect and you will have a touch more toe room. Normally people don’t downsize to get less toe room, they downsize to get the rest of the fit right. It’s nowhere near larger enough to justify downsizing.

I agree with Golden here - your mondopoint size won't change, it will just be more comfortable. You'd only downsize to accommodate a super low heel-to-instep perimeter.