Base Bevels Beyond 1 Degree

[Cork7 Belly Flop]

Saw a bit of discussion about this in the Dynastar thread (starting here) and was curious to see how many people do this.

Do you bevel your base edges beyond 1 degree (and what guide do you use)?
Do you bevel the whole edge or just certain sections?
Do you increase the side bevel to compensate for loss of acuteness?

[rod9301]

If you have a base bevel greater than 1 degree, the skis will not hook up before the hell line, basically just slide. At the end of the turn they will carve ok.
But very insecure feeling on ice at the beginning of the turn .

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[Shorty_J]

I only do it on my fattest skis where I don't care about edge hold on ice.

I have done it to the entire edge, and have also done it just to the tips and tails of skis that were very slightly concave in that area... trying to offset that concavity with a little more loose an edge. It worked well.

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[chewski]

If you have a base bevel greater than 1 degree, the skis will not hook up before the hell line, basically just slide. At the end of the turn they will carve ok.
But very insecure feeling on ice at the beginning of the turn .

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I really don't want to derail a third thread, as this guy is asking a genuine question and it sounds like you, unlike others with opinions on base bevel, have actually tried it at least. But this is sooo outside the realm of base bevel in my experience. This sounds seriously like:

1.) a ski that doesn't bite well at all regardless of tune

2.) edges that are dull AF regardless of edge angles

3.) glare ice the likes of which I have never seen

4.) not being able to tip a ski over

I don't know you and for all i know you're a better skier than me, but this is an extreme statement in my opinion. All i've ever found base bevel to do was mitigate edge catching and make split second differences in timing. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But the OP already knows what I think of base bevels, so carry on

[SoVT Joey]

OP- I run .75 to 2 degrees on my base depending on ski and application. .75 will engage faster. 2 degree allows the ski to pivot without thought. I run a 1.5 base bevel on both my daily drivers. It’s more demanding and you need higher edge angles for better grip but both pairs don’t act right without that much bevel.


if you are getting bevel anal, you better find a good shop with a good manual grinder, those robots are useless unless the operator is really taking their time. Getting skis flat sucks on these new grinders.

rod- that’s crap. I’ve never had problems railing carves with a 1.5 base bevel. It’s possible you just suck.

[gaijin]

I'm 47. So only kinda old by TRG standards. But I've watched the ski shape revolution happen over the last 25 years. I've always wondered why bevels from the factory are maybe the only thing that has never changed.

Then again, a 20 meter radius is still a 20 meter radius. So, maybe I'm thinking too much.

But again, DPS tried the Spoon. Atomic tried deep bevels on their tips and tails. I like a looser bevel on my reverse camber Rens.

I think it's a fun trial. But I also think you're going to dig a rabbit hole once you get too funky. After all, skis are still long pieces of wood on our feet. That design element hasn't changed for a few hundred years.

[ZomblibulaX]

All i've ever found base bevel to do was mitigate edge catching and make split second differences in timing. Nothing more. Nothing less

Base bevel determines engagement, that's about it. I've touched on this before but gave up since many on the board still want to detune like it's 1986, but increasing the base bevel in certain areas to change the characteristics of how a ski engages with the snow is far more beneficial than rounding the edge.

Racers have been doing this for a long time, with higher base bevels at the ends of the ski to allow for a smoother transition in and out of the turn, and flatter base bevels underfoot to increase bite and overall edge retention. A big cross section of WCers will run 0.5 base bevel on the tips and tails of their SL skis, and 0 underfoot, or .75-0.5-.75, since the ski is almost always on edge, and needs absolute grip first and foremost. I'm not saying skis are fun to ski that way, but they're effective for SL where milliseconds mean staying on line or DNF.

Examples from my quiver:

Apropos for the D* thread, on my Dynastar LP105: flat, heavily cambered tail gets 1.5 base bevel through the last ~6" of the ski, allowing the tail to shmear in tight stuff, but not reducing overall grip enough to change its hard snow performance so you can still shred groomers and shut it down when you have to. That way it's looser when I need to let the tail slide, but I don't lose any of the grip at the end of the turn that I would if it was simply detuned.

My Movement Super Turbo has a massive, minimally tapered rockered tip, so it gets 1.5 base bevel from the contact point forward, and the taper is detuned to minimize deflection in chop. Same with my Fischer Ranger 108 Ti.

It's actually really easy to create and blend in a variable base bevel, takes less effort and is often more effective than just detuning. Plus it's reversible with a light grind.

[tenB]

I go 1.5 on skis 100mm and wider, 1.0 on narrower.

Race skis get more complicated

[rod9301]

I really don't want to derail a third thread, as this guy is asking a genuine question and it sounds like you, unlike others with opinions on base bevel, have actually tried it at least. But this is sooo outside the realm of base bevel in my experience. This sounds seriously like:

1.) a ski that doesn't bite well at all regardless of tune

2.) edges that are dull AF regardless of edge angles

3.) glare ice the likes of which I have never seen

4.) not being able to tip a ski over

I don't know you and for all i know you're a better skier than me, but this is an extreme statement in my opinion. All i've ever found base bevel to do was mitigate edge catching and make split second differences in timing. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But the OP already knows what I think of base bevels, so carry on

Nope, none of the above.

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[rod9301]

And i didn't try it on purpose. A shop did this, tuning my skis. When i skied with them i immediately noticed something was wrong in the upper part of the turn.

I then measured the base bevel angle and it was 1.5 instead of the 1 that i asked for.

Ended up selling my skis.

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[chewski]

Sorry they screwed up your skis. I honestly bet they screwed up your skis, though. Like badly. I run high base bevels for their benefits off grommed, but here are just some examples of how little they have impacted my groomer skiing.

Bodacious with 2* base, 32m radius and almost reverse camber


Kastle fx104 with 1.5* base



Devestators with 2* base and full reverse camber

[yeahman]

I'm one of those weirdos who tunes the bevels to the manufacturer's rec. under the assumption that they have some reasoning behind it. Never really noticed it not working for me.

[Cork7 Belly Flop]

It's actually really easy to create and blend in a variable base bevel, takes less effort and is often more effective than just detuning. Plus it's reversible with a light grind.

For blending the bevels after filing, all you do is rub the transition area with a diamond stone right? Or is there a better way to do it?

[DumbIdeasOnly]

Sorry they screwed up your skis. I honestly bet they screwed up your skis, though. Like badly. I run high base bevels for their benefits off grommed, but here are just some examples of how little they have impacted my groomer skiing.

Bodacious with 2* base, 32m radius and almost reverse camber


Kastle fx104 with 1.5* base



Devestators with 2* base and full reverse camber

But what do you think about powder skirts?

[Core Shot]

But what do you think about powder skirts?

When you drag your poles that much you need a powder skirt

[Stuntmonkey]

I followed SoVT Joeys advice and put 2/1 on a few of my black crows and they became new skis basically.

Given the response to a simple change I’ll continue to fuck with bevels before I start messing with mount points tbh


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[Bushwacka]

Sorry they screwed up your skis. I honestly bet they screwed up your skis, though. Like badly. I run high base bevels for their benefits off grommed, but here are just some examples of how little they have impacted my groomer skiing.

Bodacious with 2* base, 32m radius and almost reverse camber


Kastle fx104 with 1.5* base



Devestators with 2* base and full reverse camber

you really are not that good and are using your inside ski as an in rigger.

With that said I use 1.5 on some of my wider ski and they still carve well on ice and eastern firm snow.

Rod do you have video of yours skiing?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

you really are not that good and are using your inside ski as an in rigger.

With that said I use 1.5 on some of my wider ski and they still carve well on ice and eastern firm snow.

Rod do you have video of yours skiing?

It’s probably because his boots are too stiff and he can’t flex his ankles


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[Shorty_J]

I followed SoVT Joeys advice and put 2/1 on a few of my black crows and they became new skis basically.

Given the response to a simple change I’ll continue to fuck with bevels before I start messing with mount points tbh


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That's an interesting idea on how to check a skis performance without a re-drill... nice.

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[halliday]

Sorry they screwed up your skis. I honestly bet they screwed up your skis, though. Like badly. I run high base bevels for their benefits off grommed, but here are just some examples of how little they have impacted my groomer skiing.

Bodacious with 2* base, 32m radius and almost reverse camber


Kastle fx104 with 1.5* base



Devestators with 2* base and full reverse camber

You have a bizarre body position while turning.

[SoVT Joey]

you really are not that good and are using your inside ski as an in rigger.

With that said I use 1.5 on some of my wider ski and they still carve well on ice and eastern firm snow.

Rod do you have video of yours skiing?

Yes!!!! Thanks for stopping by!

[SoVT Joey]

You have a bizarre body position while turning.

That’s for sure.

[chewski]

you really are not that good and are using your inside ski as an in rigger.

With that said I use 1.5 on some of my wider ski and they still carve well on ice and eastern firm snow.

Rod do you have video of yours skiing?

I definitely am not a rockstar by tgr standards. The mags i've ridden with were better than me. But it's still possible to get most any ski up on edge and to bite

[chewski]

You have a bizarre body position while turning.

Probably. I do not have any formal training and am open to pointers

[m2711c]

more ankle flex needed.




fact.