2 Fatalities on Rollins Pass

[Foggy_Goggles]

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/2-sno...f-winter-park/

I hate years like this. Please be honest with yourself, your friends and family and your touring party about about the risk of traveling in the avalanche terrain in the Northern Front Range. For those new to the game, the mid-winter Persistent Slab Problem can really limit safe travel for months at a time.

Can you safely travel in avalanche terrain? Maybe. But this is the reality:

You can easily trigger a large, dangerous avalanche on steep slopes that face northwest through east to south that can break on weak layers buried two to four feet deep.

[seano732]

Jesus this season is off to a horrific start…..Vibes to the friends and family of the victims. Sounds like it ripped big…..

[Foggy_Goggles]

Kind gentle empathetic me: vibes

Tough love reality me that is getting worn down by idiots in avalanche terrain: please don't go highmark what is potentially the the most likely to slide slope I can think of in this entire county

full disclaimer: I am no one special and I am not immune for gross errors in judgement

[ASmileyFace]

Half the deaths in Colorado this year have not been wearing transceivers and/or lacking avalanche awareness and education. This years snowpack is particularly dangerous, even for Colorado. Are we missing something in messaging and education? Why is anyone on a snowmobile traveling around Rollins pass without a transceiver?

Vibes to the family and loved ones of this very preventable tragedy.

[raisingarizona13]

Considering the population of Colorado, the amount of that population that regularly recreates in the mountains and the sensitive snowpack I'd say that ya'll are doing pretty good.

You'll never save everyone. Humans are imperfect and someone will always make bad decisions. We've all been there.

[goldenboy]

Half the deaths in Colorado this year have not been wearing transceivers and/or lacking avalanche awareness and education. This years snowpack is particularly dangerous, even for Colorado. Are we missing something in messaging and education? Why is anyone on a snowmobile traveling around Rollins pass without a transceiver?

Vibes to the family and loved ones of this very preventable tragedy.

It's interesting that 2 years ago the accidents often involved quite experienced people, and I think for a lot of us things felt pretty real when experienced people were dying. It was a good time to look in the mirror.

This year it seems like the question is how to at least get people in a KBYG type class. Even that might have been enough in some of these cases?

[summit]

This year it seems like the question is how to at least get people in a KBYG type class. Even that might have been enough in some of these cases?

KBYG has changed. I'm not really certain why. I think KYBG was originally grant funded and we (a group of instructors vetted by FoCAIC) got paid a small stipend to teach for years. There were many taught each season starting in 2015. The number of KYBGs taught since March 2020 is very low for obvious reasons, but I figured this snow year would be a good year to make up for it.

"Dear Know Before You Go Instructors ... CAIC staff will present KBYG for high-profile and/or larger groups. We will rely on outside volunteers to deliver the KBYG program to other groups that request it. The most important change here is that volunteers WILL NOT be paid for delivering the KBYG presentations. This likely means there will be a number of requests that we cannot accommodate." -FoCAIC Oct 2022

CAIC does still ask for a $250 donation to cover small group instruction though that may be just a failure to update the form.

You can request a KBYG class here: https://avalanche.state.co.us/education/kbygrequest but you may be told something like, "here are the materials, find someone to teach it for you." So that is kind of back to the old avalanche awareness model that predated KBYG, except whoever is putting it on has a nice free slide deck now, which is an improvement.

[powdork]

Not to belittle the tragedy involved, but someone with some marketing skills could turn this into something that makes folks aware and want to take classes. It sounds like those in the avalanche class acted heroically, despite the outcome.

For those that don't facebook

Our level 2 Motorized avalanche class came across an avalanche today on our way out from class at 11200’. 3 riders in a group with two completely buried. Mt Epworth, Colorado. Avalanche debris ended up on Pumphouse Lake. Students did an amazing job and were digging for a transceiver within a minute of being on scene. Students jumped into the water to uncover and remove one of the buried men. When the avalanche hit the lake, it dropped the ice and we had water above the ice. Spot probing and probe line started while transceiver search was happening. Grand County Search and Rescue was on scene very fast and handled cpr/medical. Probe lines continued for over an hour. The debris was very deep in areas and a 300cm probe would not hit the ground. Estimate that debris was 15’ deep in spots. Probe line was not successful in finding the person without a transceiver. Coordination and team work with Search and rescue went very well. It was good to work with such good people. Wind was increasing, visibility was worsening and darkness was setting in. For the safety of all involved, we had to stop searching. Thanks to everyone who helped out. Condolences to the two families and friends. Very sad day in the mountains. Please stay away from the area while recovery efforts continue tomorrow.

Have the guy in the lake survive in the movie and all of a sudden everyone wants to take an avalanche class.

[whipski]

Our local chapter did beacon training in November. You can lead a horse to water...
https://snowmobilecolo.com/

[Bunion 2020]

KBYG doesn't = Killed by your group?

[summit]

So very sad.

If this was a drowning, it would be the second confirmed drowning avalanche death in CO history.

Yes, Mike Dufy's Moto Rec 2 course did the right thing and he and his students should be commended!!!

[hatchgreenchile]

I believe this is the accident that Summit is referencing. Same slope.
https://classic.avalanche.state.co.u...=781&accfm=inv

Two father/son fatal slides and now this one, what a fucked up year.

[summit]

I believe this is the accident that Summit is referencing. Same slope.
https://classic.avalanche.state.co.u...=781&accfm=inv

Two father/son fatal slides and now this one, what a fucked up year.

That is absolutely relevant, even though it wasn't what I was referring to.

I was referencing a Nov 2001 avalanche on Rollins pass that took two skiers through the ice and drowned one of them.

[cravenmorhead]

I thought CAIC's post yesterday reflected a bit of a shift in tone. Rightfully so:

December 26 east aspect 11,600ft, December 31 southeast aspect 11,600ft and now January 7 east aspect 11600ft. These are all the dates, aspects, and elevations of the tragic fatalities one week after the next. All of these could have been multiple fatalities, and the last one, sadly was a double fatality.

The Colorado snowpack is currently very dangerous and will remain so for many weeks. You are unlikely to get obvious signs of instability like natural avalanches, cracking, and collapsing. A glass-like shattering of the slab and thick blocks of snow dragging you into an unsurvivable avalanche could be the first sign of instability you get. The most dangerous slopes face easterly, where winds have drifted thick slabs, but weak layers are present on most aspects. Many slopes are being triggered remotely or from a distance. During this period of very high consequences, avoid being on, under or close to slopes steeper than about 30 degrees unless you know there is no weak layer beneath you.

[andy m]

CAIC has released the final report on the avalanche:

https://classic.avalanche.state.co.u...=827&accfm=inv

[blazes_boylan]

Very sad. same story. different day. same result. lacking basic equipment. lacking basic education. lacking basic awareness. bad terrain management and choice. multiple people exposed to avy path at same time. person not buried unable to perform beacon search and basics of rescue, meaning little to no chance. can only hope others will learn from this tragedy.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Agreed. That said, us with more experience, ain't off the hook. We've got our own ways of fucking up. Gotta keep your guard up and commit to consistently conservative decision making.

I put this slide path on Epworth up against any as mostly deadly. I've lost count. My friend want to put on bamboo with signage at the edge of the trail. It wouldn't surprise me if 5,000 snowmobiles ride past this spot annually. Anyone of them is at risk of turning towards the lake and pushing the go button.

[Bunion 2020]

Can see why it is enticing when you are on a mountain sled but jeezus. Maybe post this photo on the boo.

RIP

[andy m]

I like the idea of putting up signs (and photos) on poles near accident sites like this, but they would probably get shot up and vandalized pretty quickly, maybe even by the same folks that cause an avalanche.

As an example, years ago the USFS put up a "permanent" sign at St. Mary's Lake north of Idaho Springs, within view of the snowfield that has been the site of numerous accidents and fatalities. The sign warned of the potential for accidents from avalanches in the winter and uncontrolled slides on steep, icy snow in the summer, but the sign is now covered with stickers, and you can't read any of the original message.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Re: Death as a learning tool

I could go on and on (and I do) about my philosophies of where your brain needs to be in order to stack the odds in your favor and enjoy a lifetime of safe recreation in the backcountry so here we go.

Don't go backcountry skiing (or snowmobiling) with people who's lives you don't respect and you you don't trust your life to. Before every tour, I want to see your eyes, know that you are engaged and understand that the gravity of the situation requires that our decision making need to be awesome...every...single...fucking...day.

We ante to the game we are playing is our lives. Have you talked about that with your wife and your Mom? Do you have the backbone to speak up when the plan is going off the rails? Are you trained up, current and prepared both mentally and physically?

While there is an element of change that can't be mitigated away, we need to be empowered by the reality that we are in control.