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Thread: No more LSAT

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    Only altasnob knows the answer to this.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    has been the burning question ^^ since i started reading this thread

    I heard an interview with Ben Mulronney a canadian entertainment reporter type, the epitomey of the silver-spoon-in-mouth, attended private schools/ prep schools in America/ attended Duke/ did law school at Laval yada fucking yada became a lawyer cuz well dad was a lawyer who eventualy became the PM of Canada

    In an interview Ben talked about law school and he remembered having to argue a point with another student whom he found himself agreeing with and thats when he realized

    he shouldn't really be a Lawyer


    edit: I have a buddy i met just post law school, I don't think lawyering was really her cup of tea and she never did practise but somehow ended up dealing with the coroners office where she seems to have carved out a niche, lots of business what with all the fentynal OD's, all her clients are dead and do not complain about double billing
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Talk in circles
    Use big words
    Hot secretary
    Nice suits
    Ski town condo
    1. Yes.
    2-4 = No.

    Can confirm. Not a particularly good lawyer.

    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    It really depends on what type of law one does.
    There are so many different jobs that have fallen under the title of "attorney" that it's really hard to say. I worked at a firm for a bit and HATED it...and I'm pretty sure they didn't like me much either. But I've done pretty well (as both a prosecutor and a PD) in a courtroom setting.

    It's a "trial lawyer" vs. paper-pusher type thing (or: business professional vs. used car salesman, if you prefer).
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    Ultimately, I think it just comes down to caring about the job.

    And for a lot of lawyers, that's hard to pull off because a lot of the work is kind of tedious and a lot of the clients are fucking assholes.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    Altasnob will be more than happy to tell you and then argue with you till the cows come home.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    1. Yes.
    2-4 = No.

    Can confirm. Not a particularly good lawyer.
    You missed 5 so there is that

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I have some mixed feelings about it. We all know people who have succeeded in life that weren't the best students or test takers. Some test is not the sole predictor of success. That said, those are typically exceptions to the rule, or at least the minority of cases. I know far more bad students who just weren't motivated and/or smart. That said, I think their best use it is the most fair way to compare students from wildly different backgrounds. Everyone knows a kid who is successful at Phillips Exeter or Bronx HS of Science is probably reasonably smart and probably very motivated. Some kid who is the top of his class in rural Nebraska or international? Harder to judge without the reputation of the school behind them. Tests allow you to compare students across varied backgrounds on a level playing field and are as close to objective as you can get.

    My sister is also a college admissions counselor. There is a nationwide consensus of what anticipated SC ruling to eliminate affirmative action will be and this is a largest driver for these changes, at least anecdotally, within her professional circles. I believe there should be more to college acceptance than just test scores but the numbers, notably from Harvard, were basically impossible to ignore, or at least defend against. An asian student with the same scores as a black student had a 70% less chance of getting in all else being equal. Numbers like that are hard to defend against claims of racial discrimination so colleges are just going to get rid of those metrics and go to completely subjective criteria that cannot be challenged. There will be unintended consequences but diversity is not going away, nor should it.
    LSAT helped me. Was on wait list at UC Berkeley/Boalt Hall and was told that since I was on the Asian wait list I had no shot. They were sued over it. Wasn’t soon enough to help me get in.

    Got into Hastings and UC Davis law school. Went to Davis undergrad so chose Hastings for law school. (Side note: Kamala Harris was in my section first year.) I was a mediocre student. Turned out to be good lawyer.

    Later, during on campus interviews at Hastings every interviewer was white. One even denigrated Filipinos aloud and to my face, and I walked out of the interview.

    Lots of Filipino nurses. Not many Filipino-American lawyers. Don’t see that changing much any time soon.

    Don’t have a solution and wouldn’t encourage my kid to run up a bunch of debt to be a lawyer.


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  8. #33
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    I’m related to 3 gen x lawyers that all did exceptionally well on their LSATs (and pretty good in school) and were able to chose whatever law school they wanted to attend: u of Michigan and Harvard. All have a reputation as very good attorneys. Worth noting that financing for their education was never a problem, which allowed them to pursue career goals not specifically tied to income to pay off loans.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tele 'til You're Smelly View Post
    Just to be clear, the ABA saying it's not going to require the law schools that it accredits to require the LSAT doesn't mean that most won't still choose to require it, or that the ones that choose not to won't allow it as an option. That's a long way from "no more LSAT."

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/legali...ds-2022-11-15/
    Yes. You must be a lawyer.
    I intuited that from the Reuters article but neglected to note it. It’s less fun that way.

    But it’s like SAT is “optional” these days.
    If you score well, you submit it. If not then fuck it.

    The rest of the article is interesting.
    Law schools still need a 75% bar pass rate.
    I had no idea bar passage was a requirement

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT View Post
    You missed 5 so there is that
    Yes I did…but it hurts too much to talk about.


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    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    One even denigrated Filipinos aloud and to my face, Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    What.
    The.
    Fuck.

    So my wife’s a very good attorney. She tests well also, and it’s her attention to detail that I think helps both things.
    She is an Estate Tax attorney so her dead clients pay, (as the joke goes), but never litigates, but of course most people think lawyers act like the ones on TV. Ima ask her about the LSAT later.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  12. #37
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    Are there Christian law schools down there ?

    Trinity western was prevented from starting a program up here

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tri...sion-1.4707240
    Last edited by XXX-er; 11-30-2022 at 05:57 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #38
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    Cool, now that I'm in law school. Plus they're changing the bar the year after I'll take it.
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  14. #39
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    Too much to ask to get an attorney’s perspective on the topic?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Too much to ask to get an attorney’s perspective on the topic?
    Dude wtf are you thinking
    This formum is populated by shit bags who smoke weed do outdoor shit and post on trg for a living

    Stop asking for real advice
    This isn't wankers for legal advice
    But wait mtm should be back from. Happy hr any second and chimney in

  16. #41
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    No more LSAT

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I’m related to 3 gen x lawyers that all did exceptionally well on their LSATs (and pretty good in school) and were able to chose whatever law school they wanted to attend: u of Michigan and Harvard. All have a reputation as very good attorneys. Worth noting that financing for their education was never a problem, which allowed them to pursue career goals not specifically tied to income to pay off loans.
    Yes, that’s one of the issues with higher education now - it costs too much for a less wealthy kid to build wealth after school.

    Example: Hastings, a UC school, was $2K/year for fees when I went there.

    Between UC Davis and Hastings I had hardly any student debt. (BTW, if I didn’t get into a UC law school, I wasn’t going to be able to afford it.)

    Later, I was able to choose to spend half of my 30+ years as an attorney representing public entities. Interesting work. Helpful to localities (IMO). Not poor, not rich.

    Now, Hastings fees are about $45K. How’s a kid going to go to school and get an ROI after spending over $200K? Almost requires spending time at big law, if they can get there.

    So, this issue seems to highlight a problem with respect to wealth/class.

    IMO, even if color/race isn’t/cannot be a factor, then background/access to resources may serve to diversify the ranks class-wise.

    BTW, anyone old enough to remember the old TV show, The Paper Chase, set at Harvard Law?

    The main character, Hart, was reminded in one episode by gruff Professor Kingsfield that one of the factors for him to get into Harvard may have been that he came from a rural background (he was white in the show). See around 41:00 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x696269

    This issue has been kicking around for 50+ years (44 years since the since Bakke decision in 1978)…



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  17. #42
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    ^^^ you can tell he's a good lawyer because he provided an obscure citation to support his point, complete with time stamp.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    BTW, anyone old enough to remember the old TV show, The Paper Chase, set at Harvard Law?
    No, but I've watched The Firm with Tom Cruise. That was a good movie.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    BTW, anyone old enough to remember the old TV show, The Paper Chase, set at Harvard Law?
    Ha! Somewhere I picked up the entire series on homemade DVDs. Great, campy show. I guess this makes me pretty old, but still not much of a lawyer.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So what makes a good lawyer?
    From what I've seen, it must be mastering the usage of epically long run-on sentences. Judging from centuries old documents I have to read for work sometimes, along with our country's founding documents, it must be a holdover from British common law. Lawyers these days be kicking it old skool. They LOVE sentences that drag on for pages. Makes it really freaking hard for me to interpret sometimes. Especially when they conflict themselves in the same long ass sentence. Part of my job is distilling all that gibberish down to the most pertinent info just so the NEXT lawyer can more easily figure out WTF the last lawyer was trying to accomplish. LMAO. Even more hilarious is when this crap gets kicked over to the courts to decide because two parties couldn't figure out what some asshole attorney back in the 60s was trying to accomplish. BILLABLE HOURS, BABY!!!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    ^^^ you can tell he's a good lawyer because he provided an obscure citation to support his point, complete with time stamp.
    I dunno. Not enough run-on sentences.

  22. #47
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    I didn't do particularly well on the LSAT. Middle of the road score. Had a shitty undergraduate GPA. They let me in. Was in the top 20% of the class through law school. I think I am a decent attorney.

    Friend with a shitty LSAT, bottom of the class, super successful practicing personal injury law. Hardest working attorney I know.

    Friend, for his second career, made a perfect score on the LSAT, top student in the class in law school. Offers from all the ivy league schools. Ended up at Mercer on a free ride. Practiced law for about 20 years. Now a Methodist minister.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    From what I've seen, it must be mastering the usage of epically long run-on sentences. Judging from centuries old documents I have to read for work sometimes, along with our country's founding documents, it must be a holdover from British common law.
    I think this is true of old-school lawyers but there is a real push for better writing now. The flip side is that too many judges now try to write edgy opinions, which are fucking obnoxious.

    To me, the most interesting legal trend in ski-adjacent lawyering land is that large regional firms are moving into places like Idaho, Nevada, and Montana and totally fucking up the market for the legacy firms in those places. For example, when I graduated law school, the (perceived) "best" Montana-based firms in places like Missoula and Bozeman didn't pay that well, and still don't--like $65-70k right now for first-year associates. But now the bigger firms have moved in and are paying first-year associates $160k, for essentially the same billable hour requirements. Interesting times, indeed.

  24. #49
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    I'm also of the opinion that the LSAT is just one tool available to help bolster an application and not determinative.

    FWIW I had good undergrad grades, top 1/3 LSAT and went to a top 20 law school where I graduated top 1/3 of my class and went on to big law (which I'm thankfully not a part of anymore) - none of which had much of a bearing on why I think I'm a good attorney today. What actually helped was my prior career in PE/Wall St. If I look at my classmates from law school the ones who are the best lawyers and are doing well today very, very few of them were the ones that went straight from undergrad to law school and/or were the best test takers; nearly all of them had prior careers.

    And as to long run-on sentences, I can't speak for litigators or courtroom jocks as I'm in M&A, but in my world the longwinded whereas, heretofore mentioned, thereto, ye olde english is not tolerated. Write clearly and concisely, and if you need to add shit like "to be clear" or "for the sake of clarity" then you didn't write it correctly the first time. An average businessperson should be able to pick up your documents and read them with reasonable ease.

    I guess that's a long way of saying the LSAT doesn't mean shit after you get into school.
    I still call it The Jake.

  25. #50
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    Without standardized tests I wouldn’t have gotten into college, or law school. Undiagnosed ADHD is a real bitch when it comes to keeping up your grades.

    I crushed the LSAT (top 2%), and got into law school before a lawyer friend talked me out of it. Thank god.

    I don’t think grades should be the only factor when looking at admissions, and I don’t think a one day test should determine your future either. Not sure what the answer is, but I hope this decision opens up pathways to a more diverse lawyering class.

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