Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27

    M-free 118 and Billy Goat asym - too much overlap

    Okay, so I just wanted an excuse to share some stoke about my ever bloating quiver and my new Mfree 118(189). But look how great they look together wit the BG(184)!

    Any thoughts about the differences here? Main difference seems to be the wider tail on the Mfree. The extra length of the mfree looks to be mainly in the sharper tip. Interested to see how much more float I get from the Mfree, and if the tail is as loose as the BG.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20221129_224433.jpg 
Views:	152 
Size:	42.7 KB 
ID:	435951

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,597
    The Bg’s float better, the mfree’s carve better. They in general just have very different feels.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    The BGs really float better even with the smaller surface area? I would imagine the tails sinking more into the snow with the BGs

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    897
    Quote Originally Posted by ma4b86 View Post
    The BGs really float better even with the smaller surface area? I would imagine the tails sinking more into the snow with the BGs

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
    Which helps the tips rise


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    4,694
    Quote Originally Posted by ma4b86 View Post
    and if the tail is as loose as the BG.
    My Lotus 138's don't ski as loose as my Billy Goats...
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    My Lotus 138's don't ski as loose as my Billy Goats...
    I've never tried anything easier to pivot in 3D-snow than my L138, even in the heaviest rainy snow. But maybe that's just me.

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,012
    Subscribed. I will be following your season. MFree108 is my daily driver. I just added a BG for this season after going back and forth on whether I get the BG or Mfree118 for the deeper days.

    Keep us updated because the MF118 is still very much on my radar.
    "Let's be careful out there."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,856
    I have 191 BGs, 192 BG118s as well as 189 MFree 118. Hoping to get time on all of them soon and will share my thoughts as well.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    4,694
    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    I have 191 BGs, 192 BG118s as well as 189 MFree 118. Hoping to get time on all of them soon and will share my thoughts as well.
    To be fairÖdonít you have Factory Race Room Protoís or Superman Mfree118ís?
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,856
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    To be fairÖdonít you have Factory Race Room Protoís or Superman Mfree118ís?
    True. I have the race room proto 118s, so a bit different. Not that different, though.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    First day on the m-free 118 189cm today! First powderday of the season, so a bit rusty for the first untracked laps. I've yet to A/B them against the Billy Goat(asym 184cm), but first impressions:

    A bit more sensitive to getting weight too much forward at low speeds. Did two nose dives in deep pow partly because of this. They seem to want more speed to come alive. I'm not completely convinced of them in powder unless you have steep open spaces.

    In chop they were absolutely amazing. All that weight and taper made them as stable as riding a downhill bike over tiny rocks. I could pretty much ignore everything in my way as long as I kept enough speed. So much fun! I have to test them against the BG to see if the BG can keep up in chop(which is my favourite place tobuse the BG).

    I've never had issues with nose dive on my BGs, even if they're a bit shorter. I'm a bit sursprised the length of the mfree didn't make up for the more progressive mount, but I guess it comes down to the wider tail.

    More to come when I get to A/B both skis.

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins
    Posts
    676
    Quote Originally Posted by ma4b86 View Post
    First day on the m-free 118 189cm today! First powderday of the season, so a bit rusty for the first untracked laps. I've yet to A/B them against the Billy Goat(asym 184cm), but first impressions:

    A bit more sensitive to getting weight too much forward at low speeds. Did two nose dives in deep pow partly because of this. They seem to want more speed to come alive. I'm not completely convinced of them in powder unless you have steep open spaces.

    In chop they were absolutely amazing. All that weight and taper made them as stable as riding a downhill bike over tiny rocks. I could pretty much ignore everything in my way as long as I kept enough speed. So much fun! I have to test them against the BG to see if the BG can keep up in chop(which is my favourite place tobuse the BG).

    I've never had issues with nose dive on my BGs, even if they're a bit shorter. I'm a bit sursprised the length of the mfree didn't make up for the more progressive mount, but I guess it comes down to the wider tail.

    More to come when I get to A/B both skis.

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
    Curious where you mounted them. The speed thing adds up, they certainly wanna go. But the tip dive is interesting. I wanna say I remember them needing a little bit of a break-in period and that went away, cuz I don't remember what being very characteristic of the ski. I ski a bit more centered stance though, so you make have a different experience if you still drive the tips hard.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMarkus View Post
    Curious where you mounted them. The speed thing adds up, they certainly wanna go. But the tip dive is interesting. I wanna say I remember them needing a little bit of a break-in period and that went away, cuz I don't remember what being very characteristic of the ski. I ski a bit more centered stance though, so you make have a different experience if you still drive the tips hard.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
    They're mounted on the line. I could blame really bad visibility and rusty technique. But I haven't experienced the same tip dive with BGs in the same terrain and snow.
    I've gotten along well with progressive mount in powder on both Hojis and lotus 138, but they're both full reverse camber. Maybe it's progressive mount and camber I struggle with. I even took out the spoilers of my xt3 140 to reduce the forward lean.

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    12,846
    Iím not sure about the 118, but the 108 responds to more tip pressure by planing up a bit faster. Itís similar to the Lhasa Pow in that regard


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    4,224

    M-free 118 and Billy Goat asym - too much overlap

    I briefly owned a set of PROTOs and I didnít notice tip dive, but a couple times in thick, heavy snow on flat terrain I felt the tip engaging the side cut and yanking me into a turn. I did not experience that at Alpental when I demoed the Menace Proto for a couple runs, and I might still own the PROTOS if I lived out west, I thought they were pretty cool.
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 01-07-2023 at 05:57 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,839
    I had the same thought when skiing BGs and PR-OTOs back to back yesterday - that is "hm, PR-OTOs do not float as effortlessly as BGs". It made me wonder if I had gone too far forward at +1.5 to +2 on le PR-OTOs. I felt the same skiing 192 MF108s today, mounted at +1.5. I remember carving pow with aplomb with both MF118s and MF108s at the end of last season, though I did not use either for early season billy goating. So the real culprit is def just lack of speed, not anything to do with the skis. My skiing is presently no where near the level I ended up last season - I am still very much refinding my form.

    And man, 16/17 BGs are something else.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I had the same thought when skiing BGs and PR-OTOs back to back yesterday - that is "hm, PR-OTOs do not float as effortlessly as BGs". It made me wonder if I had gone too far forward at +1.5 to +2 on le PR-OTOs. I felt the same skiing 192 MF108s today, mounted at +1.5. I remember carving pow with aplomb with both MF118s and MF108s at the end of last season, though I did not use either for early season billy goating. So the real culprit is def just lack of speed, not anything to do with the skis. My skiing is presently no where near the level I ended up last season - I am still very much refinding my form.

    And man, 16/17 BGs are something else.
    I guess we're stuck with the mellow angles of most Norwegian resorts where you don't always get a lot of speed in untracked pow. I might let go of the mfree and keep using Pescado/BG for pow/chop. I'll make the decision after trying them back to back tomorrow.

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by ma4b86 View Post
    I might let go of the mfree and keep using Pescado/BG for pow/chop.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Skjermbilde 2023-01-07 kl. 21.48.08.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	200.2 KB 
ID:	441634

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    2,584

    M-free 118 and Billy Goat asym - too much overlap

    I echo your sentiment. The MF118 is very sensitive to body position. The pair I skied were +1 cm for mount position. I kept feeling lost in where to keep my body on the ski. Too much tip pressure and instant hinge in the ski coupled with tip dive. Then would lean back to correct and that tail would just taco on me and Iíd wheelie out.

    BG is a better ski for me over the MF118. Itís just intuitive. If your jibby/flippy/switchy then I could see the Mf118 being a good pow stick. But not for me.

    Oddly enough. LOVE MY MF108Ö but the shovel/tail doesnít flex like the MF118.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    5,025
    Protos had below average float for a 118 IMO. Iíd rather be on the M-Free 108 in pow then the Proto. M-Free 118 might be different though.

    BG Asym is better than either for pow.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    4,224
    I thought the PROTO had great edge hold on firmer snow for such a surfy ski

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,856
    Kind of apples and oranges, but I've been on the Factory Proto 118 for 4 days this year. It's not fair since 3 of the days have been 15+" days in LCC, but it's a great ski. Floats great, pivots on a dime and handles firm way better than my '14 BGs. I'd still take my BGs in PNW (not sure any ski can top it), but I'm a big fan of the Factory Proto 118. I know it's stiffer than the MFree 118, so this doesn't help much in this thread, but if you can find one cheap, give it a shot.
    Last edited by phatty; 01-07-2023 at 10:56 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    27
    Had a closer look on my Billy Goats and Mfree118 to understand why the mfree was so prone to tip dive if I got my weight just a little too much forward.

    I noticed the tip rocker is a lot longer on the BG(marked with tape in the photos). There's also a huge difference in camber.
    The Billy Goat has about 4mm while the mfree has a whole 15mm. I think this makes the BG resurface every time the tip goes under, while the mfree just continues to dive once you get your weight too much over the tips.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230109_205303.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	41.4 KB 
ID:	441901Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230109_205236.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	39.0 KB 
ID:	441902Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230109_205136.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	52.1 KB 
ID:	441903

    Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,839
    I think the relatively lively and not overly stiff camber together with wide shovels and tails together are them main drivers of what makes the MF118 so loose. It is probably also what makes them need a bit of speed to come alive, especially given their pointy tips and relatively wider tails.

    I might have oversold you on the MF118s, but my take thus far is that the MF118 is best as a mid- to late-season ski around here, when the snow is more consistent. BGs are especially fantastic doing billy goating (snicker), tree skiing and smashing through variable.

    I can't remember thinking about the float of MF118s at all during the second half of last season after I bought my pair. I remember them as being utterly fantastic at mach schnell in fresh snow for how I like to ski, especially in drier snow. Going fast and carving / schlarving / schmearing down in good snow at speed. I preferred them to BGasyms in those conditions.

    C&Ds float better than either, by a fair margin.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •