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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    11,670
    We got sick of our old Outback's consistent issues and recalls for airbags and weird mechanical stuff. It was a great car though, especially in the snow. It was the 3.6R. I don't trust the turbos in the newer Subarus. Too much to go wrong there.

    Now we went with the Rav4 Hybrid. It is awesome. 40mpg over mountain passes. 15 more HP than the gasser, and snappy acceleration. We actually had the regular '20 Rav4 for about a year and didn't like it as much so traded it in. There is (or at least was) a wait list for these and the resale value has actually increased on it since we bought it. Crazy.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,715
    If your area uses salt on the roads I'd avoid any of the new Toyota Hybrids until they solve the cable corrosion issue.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,011
    The Jeep Quadra-Track II with the auto limited slip rear differential and air suspension is absolutely dialed. We have many miles driving on Snow setting. It’s so cool that it adjusts for an optimal ride height to keep the center of gravity lower while driving is sweet. Auto, Mud, Sand, and Rock also all have their specific ride heights that the vehicle auto adjusts to. Want maximum height and a true 50/50 4x4 put it in Rock mode. Want to not think about it and be in normal drive mode go Auto which will be a normal height around town and then auto lower at highway speed for aero ride height. Being a 4x4 system too it’s not so picky about tire ware or tread patterns like many of the other AWD cars.

    https://www.jeep.com/4x4.html
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    Added bonus since this is a hybrid of a true 4x4 transfer case and an AWD system, it has all the smart torque transfers to slipping wheels but also has a true neutral and a low range.
    "Let's be careful out there."

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
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    12,834

    New car for mountain resident (Outback?)

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Mazda CX-50
    This or CX 30

    Road tests favor Mazda’s AWD over Subaru, plus no CVT


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    5,558
    I frequently carpool to the mtns in a CX-50. Nice whip. Certainly more fun to drive than a Sienna.

    But if this is going to be a 10-year + car and see big road trips -- I'd opt AWD Sienna all day. Real-world mpg in mid-30s, tons of space for a family, easy to lift (no driveshaft to rears to worry about alignment) a bit for clearance up FS roads.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
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    12,393
    If you're not towing or going offroad, an suv seems pretty unnecessary. You're just throwing gas at a problem that doesn't exist for your use case.

    A fully electric vehicle is certainly the most logical pick for your uses, but they're expensive, options are limited, and many of them are kinda hard to come by at the moment. So I'd say get some sort of used wagon that you'll be able to flip in a couple years when EV's are a more competitive alternative.

    I'm in basically the same boat and got an audi a4 allroad. It's great in the snow, drives pretty well, and used ones are in the same price ballpark as a used outback. I'll sell it and get an EV in a year or two.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Aspen
    Posts
    1,408
    CX-50 looks sick... glad I made this thread as that was not on my radar at all. Thanks for the responses everyone. I like the Outback size because I am not the primary kid chauffeur. Just need to be able to fit both in the back seat from time to time... AWD Sienna is on the short list for my wife's next ride.

    I'd love an EV but my HOA is a few years out from having chargers in the parking lot. Will have to wait until the next vehicle purchase (or move).

    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I'm in basically the same boat and got an audi a4 allroad. It's great in the snow, drives pretty well, and used ones are in the same price ballpark as a used outback. I'll sell it and get an EV in a year or two.
    Sounds like a good option, how's the back seat? Could I fit two car seats back there? Audi scares me a little because of the perceived maintenance/repair cost (maybe I'm off base there?), Subaru/Toyota appeal because in my experience you change the oil once in a while and it will run forever.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    2,880
    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    I’m not an engineer, I’ve just driven a bunch of cars with AWD.

    If I turn the traction control off in my Audi it feels like a Subaru. Certainly Quattro isn’t the only system that moves power from wheels that lose traction, but every other one I’ve driven you can feel it do it. It’s as if there’s a slight delay, some times even dangerously so, this car simply feels glued to the road.

    That’s all I got.
    Quattro in and of itself doesn’t mean anything. Audi has used a variety of mechanical systems and electronic controls for Quattro through the years and on various models at the same time.

    That’s not to say there’s no difference between AWD systems though. Our last gen Sienna does what you describe: it’s basically FWD until the wheels start spinning and there’s a noticeable lag before power is sent to the rear. It’s not ideal, but it will get you up a snowy hill (if you turn off traction control to avoid power being cut).

    Mazda, as an example, is monitoring a bunch of sensors (outside temp, wheel speeds, steering angle, etc., etc.) to predict if sending power to the rear is necessary before slip occurs. So in cold slippery conditions power is already being sent to the rear even if no wheel spin is occurring. On a warm sunny day it would be FWD only until wheels slip, or until you start driving aggressively and the software decides that the slip is likely to occur.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Portlandia
    Posts
    2,661
    In this market it's hard to split hairs. It boils down a lot to availability or how long you are willing to wait. I just handed down my 13 Outback to my daughter, and ended up with a Forester. Loved that car. The wife is in a 20 Outback, and she loves hers.
    Training for Alpental

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    267
    Seconding everyone who says you don't need anything special--basically just anything with awd and moderate ground clearance (you might argue that AWD isn't mandatory 9 times out of 10...but its real nice to have, and depending where you're driving having AWD can exempt you from chain-up rules).

    Spend the extra money on a set of spare rims with a high-end winter tire on them that you replace before the tread gets low and wears through the stickiest rubber.

    Really wanted a Rav4 Prime (the plug in hybrid model) for my wife, but they were unobtanium last year. Ended up picking up a used Tiguan 4-motion and it has been a delightful car. It is in the body shop right now and we've had a rental Rav4 non-hybrid and I can't say I'm a fan. I'm sure it has better long-run reliability than the Tiguan, but it is mediocre to drive, not very comfortable, and has much lower grade interior finishes. Big step down from the hybrid/prime versions in my opinion.

    Outbacks fill that need, although there are some open questions on reliability and they aren't exciting to drive. Also last time I had a rental outback, I noticed the interior cabin/storage felt small relative to the overall size of the car. The outback has really grown in the last few generations and it is no longer the "wagon on stilts"--it has bloated out into a full crossover.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Quattro in and of itself doesn’t mean anything. Audi has used a variety of mechanical systems and electronic controls for Quattro through the years and on various models at the same time.

    That’s not to say there’s no difference between AWD systems though. Our last gen Sienna does what you describe: it’s basically FWD until the wheels start spinning and there’s a noticeable lag before power is sent to the rear. It’s not ideal, but it will get you up a snowy hill (if you turn off traction control to avoid power being cut).

    Mazda, as an example, is monitoring a bunch of sensors (outside temp, wheel speeds, steering angle, etc., etc.) to predict if sending power to the rear is necessary before slip occurs. So in cold slippery conditions power is already being sent to the rear even if no wheel spin is occurring. On a warm sunny day it would be FWD only until wheels slip, or until you start driving aggressively and the software decides that the slip is likely to occur.
    Correct, quattro is only a brand name. All 4 cylinder VAG group vehicles rely on Haldex. Torsen is what brought glory to Audi AWD but it's too complicated to manufacture and is overkill for 95% of the drivers and is only available to longitudinally mounted engines.

    Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

  12. #37
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaytaeMoney View Post

    Sounds like a good option, how's the back seat? Could I fit two car seats back there? Audi scares me a little because of the perceived maintenance/repair cost (maybe I'm off base there?), Subaru/Toyota appeal because in my experience you change the oil once in a while and it will run forever.
    Backseat fits car seats (both forward and rear facing) fine for me (5'9", long legs). If you're tall it'd be pretty tight though. Agreed on the Audi maintenance nervousness. I've had mine for ~3 years and haven't done anything to it aside from normal maintenance, and the internet says that the current generation of Allroads are pretty solid. But the danger of something expensive is always lurking. I think the sweet spot with those things is to buy the current generation (2017+) with ~50k miles and get rid of it before it hits 100k.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    LV-426
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    19,903
    Like all TGR vehicle threads, this one is essentially "you should buy what I have."

    So I'll diverge. How about a diesel Jaguar F Pace? Do ya feel lucky?

    https://www.carmax.com/cars/preview/...B&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    关你屁事
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    8,348
    It’s a buyers market for Lamborghini Urus right now.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Aspen
    Posts
    9,105
    Outback. If you want to spend more get an Audi. SUVs don't offer much over wagons unless you need another row. Throw a box on top for extra cargo room.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Aspen
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by JaytaeMoney View Post


    Sounds like a good option, how's the back seat? Could I fit two car seats back there? Audi scares me a little because of the perceived maintenance/repair cost (maybe I'm off base there?), Subaru/Toyota appeal because in my experience you change the oil once in a while and it will run forever.
    CX-50 is a good call. We had three Outbacks then switched to a Golf Alltrack. It's noticeably smaller than a post-2010 Outback, but it's been great for our needs and is much more refined and enjoyable to drive daily. It's a very similar size to the A4 Allroad, though the VW has a bit bigger backseat and trunk. We have two Clek Fllo car seats (not small) that live in the back seat and it's been totally doable. Cozy, but manageable even for big road trips. An off-warranty Audi can get pricey for repairs - on top of premium gas, expensive tires, insurance, etc etc.

    Rav 4 Hybrid, or a Prime if you can find it would be great and efficient. CRV hybrid or Tucson Hybrid are both a little more efficient and have smidge more rear leg room and overall cargo space.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Inside the Circle
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    3,466
    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Golf Alltrack. It's noticeably smaller than a post-2010 Outback, but it's been great for our needs and is much more refined and enjoyable to drive daily. It's a very similar size to the A4 Allroad, though the VW has a bit bigger backseat and trunk.
    Are you comparing the Golf to an A3 wagon? The A4 Allroad is significantly larger than the Golf Alltrak
    Overall length: 187.4" vs 180.2"
    Width (mirrors out): 79.6" vs. 70.8"
    Wheelbase:110.9" vs 103.5"

    The Golf does win on cargo volume (I suspect because of the higher roofline): 58.5 cu ft for the Audi and 66.5 cu ft for the VW

    I drive a Golf wagon...wish I cold afford the Audi.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    33,064
    Mazda's iactive AWD system does indeed kick ass.

    But I've been really surprised about their build quality. Never ending issues with my wife's CX3. Warning lights, AC failures, a transmission replacement under warranty, TPMS throws out random warnings when pressures are fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philly, PA
    Posts
    1,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Robik View Post
    Correct, quattro is only a brand name. All 4 cylinder VAG group vehicles rely on Haldex. Torsen is what brought glory to Audi AWD but it's too complicated to manufacture and is overkill for 95% of the drivers and is only available to longitudinally mounted engines.

    Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
    That sucks if they've changed that. My 2018 A4 Sedan still has the Torsen 40/60 full time split AWD. I thought the current A4 had the Torsen system too since its virtually the same car. The thing is an absolute tank in the snow, even with low ground clearance


    Edit to add: A4 and A6, including Allroads, and up are all longitudinally mounted 4 cyl, engines. None of them use a Haldex, only the A3

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    O+Positive
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    2,541
    If you had time to wait, the hybrid Corolla Cross looks very promising. My gf is on the list for one, but dealer is saying they are still several months out from shipping.
    Montani Semper Liberi

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    9,997
    There’s a couple RAV4 Primes only 101 miles away.
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    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    2,880
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Mazda's iactive AWD system does indeed kick ass.

    But I've been really surprised about their build quality. Never ending issues with my wife's CX3. Warning lights, AC failures, a transmission replacement under warranty, TPMS throws out random warnings when pressures are fine.
    We have a 2018 CX-3 and no issues at all.

    I’ve had a few Mazdas and the only one that had issues was a Mazdaspeed Protege. Basically everything that was changed for that model was a problem, but that car wasn’t developed by Mazda itself, it was a small production volume just for the US.

    Generally Mazda has a very good reputation for reliability.

    Also, the reason I recommended the CX-50 isn’t because I own one, it’s because of this:

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  23. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Aspen
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post
    Are you comparing the Golf to an A3 wagon? The A4 Allroad is significantly larger than the Golf Alltrak
    Overall length: 187.4" vs 180.2"
    Width (mirrors out): 79.6" vs. 70.8"
    Wheelbase:110.9" vs 103.5"

    The Golf does win on cargo volume (I suspect because of the higher roofline): 58.5 cu ft for the Audi and 66.5 cu ft for the VW

    I drive a Golf wagon...wish I cold afford the Audi.
    No, to the A4 Allroad.

    Yes the A3 and Golf share the chassis, but functionally the A4 and Alltrack are on par. Alltrack just has a longer wheelbase, longer hood and tail, but more taper which means less cargo space. Friends of ours traded there’s for a Q7 once they had the second kid. It was noticeably less functional than our Alltrack.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    2,880
    Last years Consumer Reports brand reliability rankings:

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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Last years Consumer Reports brand reliability rankings:
    I must have got a Friday afternoon build then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

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