New car for mountain resident (Outback?)

[Name Redacted]

When people recommend a Jeep....

[Hood26]

When people recommend a Jeep....

The consumer reports scores are heavily skewed by a poorly designed GPS module on the radio that had a high failure rate. Yes, ours failed too. Sure the rig thinks we are in the middle of Nevada and I get the occasional storm alert for 1,000 miles away, but it’s a livable inconvenience because everything else on the car has been flawless for 5 years now. If I could go back we would have just not gotten the Nav system.

Meanwhile I just helped my dad pickup his Subaru that needed $1,000 set of tires to keep the AWD system happy because only a few options work for it. Between my in-laws and father they have had 5 Subarus between the three of them in the last 10 years. I’ll take the Jeeps any day. But I guess I am a Fanboi. In the last 20 years my wife and I have had 5 Jeeps. One Cherokee was totaled by someone else’s fault and four Grands that were moved along in perfect working order only because we wanted the new tech and creature comforts.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Subaru that needed $1,000 set of tires to keep the AWD system happy because only a few options work for it.

Can you expand on this? I’ve never heard of something like that before.

[Lindahl]

I like my Kia Sorrento, so you should buy one. AWD systems all work ok enough. Just get good tires and figure out how to drive in snow you'll be fine. Great price and gas mileage for the trunk space, which is why it topped my list. You can lock it into 4x4 at slow speeds which is nice when you need the extra traction getting out of a jam like tricky mountain town hills or driveways.

Looking forward to a used EV9 in a few years.

[ski whore]

2 kids? Dude, f150 all the way


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[Hood26]

Can you expand on this? I’ve never heard of something like that before.

My old man is not a perfectly reliable source and I am sure he could have found a less expensive option than he chose. However, the Subaru AWD (as are most AWD and that’s why i would rather have a 4x4) is well documented as a picky set up. From Subaru



Here you go if you want to go into a deep dive into Subaru tires recommendations:

https://subarudrive.com/articles/sub...re-replacement

Meanwhile on my Jeep I can go a little bigger or a little
smaller (or even put a tire with a slightly different tread ware in the event of a single tire blow out) without it flipping it’s cookies and trying to shit out it’s own transmission and drivetrain.

I wouldn’t own an AWD anything and there are a lot of auto techs in the same camp.

10 min video of a Jeep Quadra Trac II in the snow:

https://youtu.be/F6fXHX1z5Gc I like the guys from TFL always good vehicle reviews.

[plugboots]

The tires just need to be the same size and specifically diameter. I’ve had tires shaved down twice. BFD.

[J. Barron DeJong]

The tires just need to be the same size and specifically diameter. I’ve had tires shaved down twice. BFD.

yeah, it doesn’t sound like an issue unique to Subaru. Mismatched tire size could cause excess wear/heat in certain types of differentials, and a locking 4x4 diff wouldn’t have that. But there could still be an issue with binding of a locking diff due to mismatched diameters, although you probably wouldn’t experience it because you wouldn’t have the diff locked on dry pavement, cause binding around corners is a issue as well.

But there’s another issue regardless of drivetrain type: mismatched diameters are going to mess up the stability control, traction control, and to a lesser extent, abs systems. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeep had similar guidance regarding tire diameters as well.

[toast2266]

2 kids? Dude, f150 all the way


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Better go with a Ford expedition, just to be safe. Never know when you're gonna need to evacuate an entire youth soccer team.

[Hood26]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeep had similar guidance regarding tire diameters as well.

This sent me into homework session; been in the rabbit hole for a while and learned much. From the Jeep Manual:

Proper operation of four wheel drive vehicles depends on
tires of equal size, type, and circumference on each
wheel. Any difference will adversely affect shifting and
cause damage to the transfer case

There are no published specs of allowance like Audi or others have about tread depth from FCA, but matched is obviously best practice and it is a rule of thumb for the Quadra Trac II and Quadra Drive II s to have no more than 1/4 inch differences in circumference in any tire because since there are many internal clutches, it too like the AWD needs matched tires. So yeah buy all four for a Jeep auto 4wd (luckily I have) or get tires shaved as needed. Still, I like the 4wd over AWD for having a transfer case with a low range.

OP I will quit sidetracking. I hope you find a new car you love whatever it may be. Nonetheless, I do think you should try a Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee for a test drive.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

No, to the A4 Allroad.

Yes the A3 and Golf share the chassis, but functionally the A4 and Alltrack are on par. Alltrack just has a longer wheelbase, longer hood and tail, but more taper which means less cargo space. Friends of ours traded there’s for a Q7 once they had the second kid. It was noticeably less functional than our Alltrack.

So...having almost 7.5" more wheelbase doesn't equate to more legroom/room for car seats? And the width differential (almost 9") is also significant for fitting multiple car seats in the back seat. Here's a pro tip: don't load cargo above the top of the rear seats...it becomes projectiles in any kind of collision. That kind of eliminates the only size advantage the Golf has. Again, I drive a Golf wagon.

[El Chupacabra]

Diesel Jaaaaaaag.

[hopelesslyadolescent]

I bought a 2021 Ascent and like it a lot. If your kids are both in car seats, the additional room in the Ascent over the Outback is significant. I got two buckets for the second seating so I can take both my grandkids at the same time in the ridiculously huge car seats that are now required. The third row seating is actually functional for adults, who then have room to attend to the kids in front of them because of the space between the buckets. A CalTrans employee who stopped me at a chain check admired my Ascent and told me "I've always been a Jeep guy, but my wife bought a Subaru and it handles ten times better in the snow."

[hatchgreenchile]

When people recommend a Jeep....

It should be a Wrangler, NOT the Grand Cherokee

[toast2266]

So...having almost 7.5" more wheelbase doesn't equate to more legroom/room for car seats? And the width differential (almost 9") is also significant for fitting multiple car seats in the back seat. Here's a pro tip: don't load cargo above the top of the rear seats...it becomes projectiles in any kind of collision. That kind of eliminates the only size advantage the Golf has. Again, I drive a Golf wagon.

Like you're saying, Allroad has a bit more people room (mostly it's wider). Alltrack has a bit more cargo room (mostly at the roofline, so may or may not be useful depending on what you're carrying).

Aside from price, the main upside of an Alltrack over an Allroad is that it's available in a manual.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> In the last 20 years my wife and I have had 5 Jeeps. <snip> four Grands that were moved along in perfect working order

You do realize that this may qualify you as the luckiest person on the planet, right?

[detrusor]

Never driven a Chrysler product that did not strand me. Will not buy


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[El Chupacabra]

Never driven a Chrysler product that did not strand me. Will not buy


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What about something from:
AMC/ Renault
DaimlerChrysler
Cerberus
Fiat
Stellantis

?

[lowsparkco]

Correct, quattro is only a brand name. All 4 cylinder VAG group vehicles rely on Haldex. Torsen is what brought glory to Audi AWD but it's too complicated to manufacture and is overkill for 95% of the drivers and is only available to longitudinally mounted engines.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Haldex and Torsen are the two types of clutched differentials that the Audi VW group has used on 4Motion and Quattro equipped cars. There was a lot of spirited debate concerning which wheels are favored and how much understeer each may have when Quattro Ultra was released in the U.S. market.

It seems the critique of my appreciation for Quattro was focused on the fact that different equipment and systems are offered on different vehicles of different ages. I certainly am not qualified to comment on many of those systems.

My theory is that a car company that makes a great AWD system for one car probably has similar equipment and performance on other cars in their lineup.

I think the models that are Haldex vs. Torsen do probably have different characteristics, although reports from professional drivers say that under normal driving a consumer would not detect the differences. My car has a Torsen system and my understanding is that the engineering that goes into how the ECU utilizes the differential namely the stabilization system (ESC) is the advantage of Audi AWD. My experiences experimenting with the ESC turned off seems to confirm that. The biggest component seems to be that Audi builds a system that can favor the rear wheels during acceleration and “spirited” cornering. My limited understanding is that the normal D drive mode meets all of the regulations for less fuel consumption, but the sport mode allows Audi to deliver a car that’s still fun to drive and isn’t just a FWD car that transfers power to the rear when you lose traction which would probable the most fuel efficient protocol.

Anyways, I think the Allroad could be big enough for two car seats, but it would probably take a decent amount of organization as they grow to stash equipment, a bag of groceries, school bags and two car seats in the car. It seems pretty small inside. That being said I had wanted one since the original A6 was released in ‘99 and haven’t been disappointed. I’m expecting my first child in May and assume one kid will go in it just fine. If you’re a “throw it in just in case” kind of packer I think it would seem tight. We live in a time with so many incredibly well-built, fun, and interesting vehicles to choose from, we’re truly fortunate. I owned a Mazda in the past and think they are underrated for the quality of their build although I know nothing about their AWD. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[J. Barron DeJong]

So...having almost 7.5" more wheelbase doesn't equate to more legroom/room for car seats? And the width differential (almost 9") is also significant for fitting multiple car seats in the back seat. Here's a pro tip: don't load cargo above the top of the rear seats...it becomes projectiles in any kind of collision. That kind of eliminates the only size advantage the Golf has. Again, I drive a Golf wagon.

A friend of mine from high school was killed in college when a speaker that was sitting on the parcel shelf behind the back seats flew forward and hit his head. It was a low speed accident, slid off the road in snow/icy conditions. His girlfriend who was in the passenger seat had no injuries at all.

[JaytaeMoney]

I bought a 2021 Ascent and like it a lot. If your kids are both in car seats, the additional room in the Ascent over the Outback is significant. I got two buckets for the second seating so I can take both my grandkids at the same time in the ridiculously huge car seats that are now required. The third row seating is actually functional for adults, who then have room to attend to the kids in front of them because of the space between the buckets. A CalTrans employee who stopped me at a chain check admired my Ascent and told me "I've always been a Jeep guy, but my wife bought a Subaru and it handles ten times better in the snow."

Ascent was on the list initially but seems redundant since my wife has a Highlander which is the primary kid car and what we use for road trips with the kids and all their crap in tow. My car just needs to be able to fit both of them for short local trips like daycare pickup/dropoff, errands, etc. At this point seems like a tossup between a CX-50 or an Outback.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Ascent was on the list initially but seems redundant since my wife has a Highlander which is the primary kid car and what we use for road trips with the kids and all their crap in tow. My car just needs to be able to fit both of them for short local trips like daycare pickup/dropoff, errands, etc. At this point seems like a tossup between a CX-50 or an Outback.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews...ubaru-outback/

[Duffman]

Haldex and Torsen are the two types of clutched differentials that the Audi VW group has used on 4Motion and Quattro equipped cars. There was a lot of spirited debate concerning which wheels are favored and how much understeer each may have when Quattro Ultra was released in the U.S. market.

It seems the critique of my appreciation for Quattro was focused on the fact that different equipment and systems are offered on different vehicles of different ages. I certainly am not qualified to comment on many of those systems.

My theory is that a car company that makes a great AWD system for one car probably has similar equipment and performance on other cars in their lineup.

I think the models that are Haldex vs. Torsen do probably have different characteristics, although reports from professional drivers say that under normal driving a consumer would not detect the differences. My car has a Torsen system and my understanding is that the engineering that goes into how the ECU utilizes the differential namely the stabilization system (ESC) is the advantage of Audi AWD. My experiences experimenting with the ESC turned off seems to confirm that. The biggest component seems to be that Audi builds a system that can favor the rear wheels during acceleration and “spirited” cornering. My limited understanding is that the normal D drive mode meets all of the regulations for less fuel consumption, but the sport mode allows Audi to deliver a car that’s still fun to drive and isn’t just a FWD car that transfers power to the rear when you lose traction which would probable the most fuel efficient protocol.

Anyways, I think the Allroad could be big enough for two car seats, but it would probably take a decent amount of organization as they grow to stash equipment, a bag of groceries, school bags and two car seats in the car. It seems pretty small inside. That being said I had wanted one since the original A6 was released in ‘99 and haven’t been disappointed. I’m expecting my first child in May and assume one kid will go in it just fine. If you’re a “throw it in just in case” kind of packer I think it would seem tight. We live in a time with so many incredibly well-built, fun, and interesting vehicles to choose from, we’re truly fortunate. I owned a Mazda in the past and think they are underrated for the quality of their build although I know nothing about their AWD. Good luck with whatever you choose!

We had 2 car seats in the A4 sedan, so the Allroad that has basically identical rear seat dimensions would work fine

[toast2266]

We had 2 car seats in the A4 sedan, so the Allroad that has basically identical rear seat dimensions would work fine

I have twins and an allroad. 2 car seats are definitely fine. 2 car seats + a big diaper bag + a large tandem stroller + mom + assorted other gear are also fine.

Beyond that, we take the minivan.

[bourbonisgood]

I have twins and an allroad. 2 car seats are definitely fine. 2 car seats + a big diaper bag + a large tandem stroller + mom + assorted other gear are also fine.

Beyond that, we take the minivan.

To expand on this, a buddy of mine was able to Tetris 3 car seats in his Allroad. I don’t believe you’d want to ever take them out once in place. From my own experience, Diono car seats fit really well in my Allroad and have excellent safety ratings(at least they did when we bought 5 yrs ago). They are super well built and very compact