Minimum & Maximum Boot Sole Lengths

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Just want to chime in since I'm the tech that Terry sent the layout tool. I won't be able to really check this closely till tomorrow but I threw the tool under the jig today and it seemed to confirm the findings of MyNameisAugustWest. The heel holes are slightly off the jig.

I will actually drill some holes in a 2x4 to confirm tomorrow but my quick glance at it confirmed a very slight difference.

Credit goes to Thom (galibier numero un); his template is the one that turned me on to this anomaly.

[chicken feathers]

Isn’t all of this about nitpicking? Thanks. I’ll make the adjustment and print for prime time.


Sent via iPhone
Slidewright.com

Can you post up when the adjustment has been made and verified? Hoping to order soon!

[Alpinord]

Can you post up when the adjustment has been made and verified? Hoping to order soon!

The 0.5mm adjustment has been made to the heels and they’ve been printed. Be sure to measure thrice and perform a test mount. Hopefully, ASF will get a chance to confirm as well when convenient. But with the recent ‘dump’, l’m hoping he’s been out getting face shots!


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[Westcoaster]

great tool and great use of 3dp. Just a heads up, im fairly certain the sth2 front holes are 42.5 mm wide, and the toe piece front to rear hole spacing is 31mm. I have 3d printed my own toe patterns for sth2 for insert mounts and this lines up perfectly. Can anyone else confirm?

[Alpinord]

great tool and great use of 3dp. Just a heads up, im fairly certain the sth2 front holes are 42.5 mm wide, and the toe piece front to rear hole spacing is 31mm. I have 3d printed my own toe patterns for sth2 for insert mounts and this lines up perfectly. Can anyone else confirm?

The endless changing minutiae on the vast array of binding layouts is very discouraging. A lot of these templates appear confirmed and work fine for a lot of people and then others are having issues with 0.5mm tolerances. Are these differences something that you can't deal with on the bench or are they more academic? Are people 'sweating the small stuff' or are these real issues and substantial discrepancies?

As long time carpenter & DIYer, drilling holes in boards is not complicated and micro adjustments are normal and very manageable...especially for alpine bindings and screws in relatively soft material (ie, vs solid metal or concrete or other immovable material). Sometimes a simple 'love tap' and you're good. For inserts, they can be tweaked as well and using the binding (and even boot) and screwing into the ski will help with micro adjusting the insert if there is a slight inaccuracy with marking, drilling or both. Then use the binding while the epoxy cures.

See comments from Knut above and mine on 'shifting the mark'. Never assume anything is spot on and measure at least thrice. As noted, perform a test mount. If you find a discrepancy, then make the adjustment before going for it on your skis. This is DIY 101. If you are not typically dealing with marking, layout, hand tools & drills on a regular basis, then take the time to 'practice' and build confidence.

Regardless, I've added Salomon Shift MNC 13s & Marker Jester-Griffon-Squire options

[Westcoaster]

The endless changing minutiae on the vast array of binding layouts is very discouraging. A lot of these templates appear confirmed and work fine for a lot of people and then others are having issues with 0.5mm tolerances. Are these differences something that you can't deal with on the bench or are they more academic? Are people 'sweating the small stuff' or are these real issues and substantial discrepancies?

As long time carpenter & DIYer, drilling holes in boards is not complicated and micro adjustments are normal and very manageable...especially for alpine bindings and screws in relatively soft material (ie, vs solid metal or concrete or other immovable material). Sometimes a simple 'love tap' and you're good. For inserts, they can be tweaked as well and using the binding (and even boot) and screwing into the ski will help with micro adjusting the insert if there is a slight inaccuracy with marking, drilling or both. Then use the binding while the epoxy cures.

See comments from Knut above and mine on 'shifting the mark'. Never assume anything is spot on and measure at least thrice. As noted, perform a test mount. If you find a discrepancy, then make the adjustment before going for it on your skis. This is DIY 101. If you are not typically dealing with marking, layout, hand tools & drills on a regular basis, then take the time to 'practice' and build confidence.

Regardless, I've added Salomon Shift MNC 13s & Marker Jester-Griffon-Squire options

I'm not really following, the knut template is incorrect and it's pretty clearly so with calipers. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere on this website.

Just trying to offer some help...

[Alpinord]

I'm not really following, the knut template is incorrect and it's pretty clearly so with calipers. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere on this website.

Just trying to offer some help...

Thanks for that, but since I received no STH2 discrepancy feed back previously in this thread and from those who have received this tool, you asking for confirmation struck me as a new 'revelation' and not something previously discussed.

With the poor search capabilities of this site, and the shear volume of posts, it's impossible to quickly zero in on discrepancies or find the corrections....if there are any...or not...on all of the bindings and their variations and nuances without guidance (and people to follow up). There is too much to weed through. Thus the general frustration rant (not specifically directed at you) after spending a ton of time on this project already and not seeing a clear path moving forward.

So..how can we all find confirmed templates quickly for each binding? One simple way is for those finding discrepancies is to print out the template, place your bindings over the template, check the hole alignments, measure & REDLINE the discrepancies, take a picture and post it along with handle and links to any background info. Otherwise, I'm starting to think the only way I can feel confident is to obtain each binding, measure them, test mount, and reinvent the wheel....

[Bobcat Sig]

I just stumbled onto this thread and these templates are such a rad idea!! I love it. I'm in for a Pivot template.

I only read the first page... I know the vaunted Salomon STH (no the 2) is out of production. Any chance those get a 3DP template? If so, I'm in for one as I've hoarded several sets of those that I intend to use.

[XXX-er]

As long time carpenter & DIYer, drilling holes in boards is not complicated and micro adjustments are normal and very manageable...especially for alpine bindings and screws in relatively soft material (ie, vs solid metal or concrete or other immovable material). Sometimes a simple 'love tap' and you're good. For inserts, they can be tweaked as well and using the binding (and even boot) and screwing into the ski will help with micro adjusting the insert if there is a slight inaccuracy with marking, drilling or both. Then use the binding while the epoxy cures.

since you brought it ^^ up yeah so mounting a binding on a piece of wood is really just good layout, reading these tech talk posts I long ago realized that a lot of the people mounting their own fucking skis don't have the background, really don't understand what they are doing

[Alpinord]

I just stumbled onto this thread and these templates are such a rad idea!! I love it. I'm in for a Pivot template.

I only read the first page... I know the vaunted Salomon STH (no the 2) is out of production. Any chance those get a 3DP template? If so, I'm in for one as I've hoarded several sets of those that I intend to use.

Get me a template you trust, order 'custom' via the store and I'll get 'er done.

[Alpinord]

since you brought it ^^ up yeah so mounting a binding on a piece of wood is really just good layout, reading these tech talk posts I long ago realized that a lot of the people mounting their own fucking skis don't have the background, really don't understand what they are doing

Exactly. That's why I suggested that some might need to spend the time to practice and bump up their skills. Like anything if you are not in a regular mode, you need to allow yourself some time, effort and focus to get up to speed before taking the risk of drilling your skis.

[XXX-er]

Exactly. That's why I suggested that some might need to spend the time to practice and bump up their skills. Like anything if you are not in a regular mode, you need to allow yourself some time, effort and focus to get up to speed before taking the risk of drilling your skis.

yeah practice on the 2x4 maybe they don't know shit about tanks/ airplanes/ mounting skis

but maybe they know stuff about women or money that has entirely gone whoosh over my techy head ?

[Bobcat Sig]

Get me a template you trust, order 'custom' via the store and I'll get 'er done.

Will do. I've been using an early Binding Freedom template from when those first hit the site here. I'll shoot you a PM so we can get the email going.

I appreciate it!

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

The endless changing minutiae on the vast array of binding layouts is very discouraging. A lot of these templates appear confirmed and work fine for a lot of people and then others are having issues with 0.5mm tolerances. Are these differences something that you can't deal with on the bench or are they more academic? Are people 'sweating the small stuff' or are these real issues and substantial discrepancies?

As long time carpenter & DIYer, drilling holes in boards is not complicated and micro adjustments are normal and very manageable...especially for alpine bindings and screws in relatively soft material (ie, vs solid metal or concrete or other immovable material). Sometimes a simple 'love tap' and you're good. For inserts, they can be tweaked as well and using the binding (and even boot) and screwing into the ski will help with micro adjusting the insert if there is a slight inaccuracy with marking, drilling or both. Then use the binding while the epoxy cures.

See comments from Knut above and mine on 'shifting the mark'. Never assume anything is spot on and measure at least thrice. As noted, perform a test mount. If you find a discrepancy, then make the adjustment before going for it on your skis. This is DIY 101. If you are not typically dealing with marking, layout, hand tools & drills on a regular basis, then take the time to 'practice' and build confidence.

Regardless, I've added Salomon Shift MNC 13s & Marker Jester-Griffon-Squire options

I get what you're saying...if the template is off to start with, the adjustments have to be bigger. My first Vipec installation (on a 2X4) did not go well and made getting the heel plate on straight pretty tough. Yes, the discrepancy was only 0.5mm but then if your drill bit wanders another 0.5mm, now you're off by 1mm. Center punching certainly helps with that and your rad guides make center punching child's play.

As you know, I did exactly as you suggested...I put the Vipec heel plate over the OnTheSnow template and it was clearly off by 0.5mm. I get that it's frustrating and I think gregorys is going through similar machinations.

If we didn't constantly machinate over minutiae, this forum wouldn't exist

[Alpinord]

Will do. I've been using an early Binding Freedom template from when those first hit the site here. I'll shoot you a PM so we can get the email going.

I appreciate it!

I'm starting to wonder if the template vs realty discrepancies are partially due to rounding, coupled with scaling...and in some cases if you 'zig' vs 'zag' one way or the other, you can get a bust. And, as mentioned previously some bindings are less forgiving (slop factor) to the screw location in their bases than others.

Bobcat Sig, there is a slight scaling discrepancy on Jondrums template. The main scale says shrink it 200/200.16 = 0.999200639488409. The BSL says enlarge it 60/59.94= 1.001001001001001. Up until this recent discrepancies, I say this is negligible and basically inconsequential. Now, I'm not wondering otherwise. Any insights on rounding the dimensions I'm getting dimensions?

Edited w/presumed adjusted dimensions in parentheses:

[Alpinord]

great tool and great use of 3dp. Just a heads up, im fairly certain the sth2 front holes are 42.5 mm wide, and the toe piece front to rear hole spacing is 31mm. I have 3d printed my own toe patterns for sth2 for insert mounts and this lines up perfectly. Can anyone else confirm?

Want to confirm, before I hit print:



EDIT:
See STH template above where the toe dimension mirror these suggested adjustments. I am trying to get additional confirmation from a couple customers who have the STH2 Binding Layout tool.

[STLHD]

FYI, I asked Terry to create an Alpinist tool. Here is the template I've been using for the past year or two. I can't remember where I got it from; if it was someone here, thanks. Marker alpinist new.pdf

[Alpinord]

FYI, I asked Terry to create an Alpinist tool. Here is the template I've been using for the past year or two. I can't remember where I got it from; if it was someone here, thanks. Marker alpinist new.pdf

Hi STLHD,
The dimensions look pretty clean on this template. Please confirm:

[STLHD]

Hi STLHD,
The dimensions look pretty clean on this template. Please confirm:

I confirmed those measurements on my printout. Thanks.

[Alpinord]

I confirmed those measurements on my printout. Thanks.

Cool. Hopefully the world won't end as we know it after I shifted the BSL 0.5mm:



My robots ought to have them done in an hour:

[STLHD]

Very cool. Appreciate all the work you're putting in.

[Alpinord]

If we didn't constantly machinate over minutiae, this forum wouldn't exist

The devil is in the details. So is the drama, controversy and therefore interest.

Happy Holidays everyone!

[Alpinord]

Regarding the STH2 discrepancies, here is snippets from back and forth from one individual who received the STH2 Binding Layout tool based on Knut's template and was very gracious:

"I have used the same STH2 paper template for several pairs of skis over the past 5 years or so. I have already mounted my skis for this season but I thought I would go ahead and get your printed template."

".....I successfully used that paper template at least 8 times."



"and I just measured the actual binding. this template is correct"

"Your tool is right. It matches my paper template nearly perfectly"

Where does that leave us? Anyone else have any insights. It is interesting that the STH dimension are similar to what westcoaster measured on the STH2:

"Just a heads up, I'm fairly certain the sth2 front holes are 42.5 mm wide, and the toe piece front to rear hole spacing is 31mm. "

[Bobcat Sig]

I'm starting to wonder if the template vs realty discrepancies are partially due to rounding, coupled with scaling...and in some cases if you 'zig' vs 'zag' one way or the other, you can get a bust. And, as mentioned previously some bindings are less forgiving (slop factor) to the screw location in their bases than others.

Bobcat Sig, there is a slight scaling discrepancy on Jondrums template. The main scale says shrink it 200/200.16 = 0.999200639488409. The BSL says enlarge it 60/59.94= 1.001001001001001. Up until this recent discrepancies, I say this is negligible and basically inconsequential. Now, I'm not wondering otherwise. Any insights on rounding the dimensions I'm getting dimensions?

Edited w/presumed adjusted dimensions in parentheses:

Valid question. Truthfully, I don’t know that I’ve noticed a difference. I’ve mounted at least a half dozen bindings with the template I sent you and it seemed to get it done. Mind you, these were free-hand mounts, so if there was any discrepancy, it was minimal and not enough for me to notice on the bench.

I will say that for each print of the template,
I checked the scale with my trusty engineering ruler from my mechanical engineering days in college and it all came out acceptable.

[Westcoaster]