Grip Walk Vs WTR Pivots

[Alpinord]

I just started trying to get my head around Grip Walk vs Dual WTR and other norms. Geometrically, I’m not finding any substantial difference between the Pivot toes.

What’re the differences?

If I switch to Grip Walk boots, will my Dual WTR Pivots work the same as my Grip Walk Pivots? If not, why not?











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[zlatham]

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[Ørion]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...patible-issues

Worth a read

[Pins and Skins]

Straight from the tech manual, page 7 gives you the various combos

https://www.ajmotionsports.com/wp-co...020-21_WEB.pdf

[Alpinord]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...patible-issues

Worth a read

Thanks. Good info and you saved me the hardship of typing in a search.


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[Alpinord]

Straight from the tech manual, page 7 gives you the various combos

https://www.ajmotionsports.com/wp-co...020-21_WEB.pdf

Thanks. In a nutshell:

“Boots featuring GRIPWALK soles are compatible with "Dual" bindings in Alpine mode (Look and Rossignol bindings with the "Dual" designation) and AW or GW bindings”




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[tenB]

Great pics showing the afd profile and measurements to the high point of the afd. With gripwalk, the downward angle of the afd and especially the plastic behind the afd matter more.

On gripwalk soles, there is a rubber lug that extends downward, lower than the afd on the boot sole. That plastic (usually black) matters more than the afd because it needs to be sloped or notched significantly lower than the white afd.

I’ve made a couple pairs of 916s gw compatible by using a Dremel and grinding down that black plastic down to allow room for the gw boot lug. I used a mnc sth2 as a visual templet.

The check is to snap a boot in and see if the lug is clear during the entire binding release. Pretty quick 10 minute easy fix, be sure to smooth out the black plastic with sandpaper by hand.

[Alpinord]

Apparently, you can get replacement Look/FKS toe bases with GW AFDs.

“FS: FKS/Pivot Bindings: Used complete sets, and parts, mix-and-match
Yo. Don't spend $100+ on brake assemblies, just call Rossi service @ 435-252-3300, tell them what you need. They sell parts wholesale to consumers--you don't need to be a dealer. Brake assemblies are $50/pair, any size + ship. Alpine AFDs are $7/pair + ship.

Do them a favor and have the part numbers you need handy, and tell them how much you love their product + thanks for providing this excellent service.

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https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/....php?p=6418055”

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[alfajores]

Also worth noting, I run ISO 9523 boots (Dynafit Hoji Free 130) on Look Pivot 18 with Gripwalk and mine are just fine. The Gripwalk marketing is based heavily on that ISO standard.
https://www.evo.com/guides/ski-boot-...-compatibility

I think the statement from eVo:
"Bindings designated for compatibility with GripWalk will work with Alpine (ISO 5355) and GripWalk boot soles. Non-GripWalk ISO 9523, WTR and non-standard touring boots may fit into GripWalk bindings, but they will not perform safely or consistently."
should read
"but they may not perform safely or consistently."

It is a case-by-case basis. We should all be outraged that companies built "standards" on top of ISO standards in this market. It is confusing for customers, unsafe for many, and purely financially driven.

[Alpinord]

Update: I called Rossi customer service (Kyle was super helpful) and you’ll need to fill out the online contact vs ordering via phone.

Https://www.rossignol.com/us/contactus/

They have limited supply on AFDs and they might have brakes in December sometime.

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[sweatypowderpig]

wish i knew this before swapping my WTR AFDs for GW doh

[Alpinord]

The GW AFDs arrived from Rossi and after swapping them out, there is a gap that isn’t on my other GW Pivots for my GW 4-Quattros (replacing Hurricanes with the ‘same’ BSL). Dimensionally everything matches between the two sets and I can’t see how there would be a difference. Any thoughts? Am I gonna die?














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[Shorty_J]

^^^ I wouldn't think that's good on a toe piece that isn't supposed to be adjusted?

I bought my first pair of pivot 15s recently and when you click into those the toe angles up a little even with regular alpine soles. I would think that both those 15 style and the 12/14 style should work the same and apply a little force down from the toe when clicked in?

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[SoVT Joey]

Check your afd height with a CC or a ID. There should be enough room to slide a card in just barely and have some resistance on it. But that right there is the exact reason I only run 9523 soles and DIN. Gripwalk does funny things with the afd, they test fine, but visually it looks like a ticking time bomb.

your FP looks light. And honestly from that picture the new boot looks like a shorter BSL. I mean there’s like a .75 cm difference by eye it seems. If that’s the case you are in remount territory cause pivots will only adjust 5mm in either direction of original BSL mount.

pivots will always pivot.

[Alpinord]

The Hurricane BSL is 298 & The 4-Quattros are 299 and measure very close. The main difference is the rear clip on the 4-Quattros are proud of the heel. This changes how the heel sits in the dildo which seems to want it more aft. (See the slight gouge on the heel). Part of the mix is figuring out position and FP. How to get this correct was my other concern and further questions. Compared to the Hurricanes, I backed the heels off 5mm for the clip to clear better. Moving them more forward gets tighter, but might be the call, eh, though if they were further back, there would be less pinching…..

The replacement AFD is right at ‘resistive’ CC thickness. The GW Pivots are tight at the AFD. Visually, I think the curve of the AFD makes the gap look considerably more. It seems they ought to be exactly the same given the AFD thicknesses & heights all match.

[SoVT Joey]

Everything sounds correct, you may need to put the FP back in the 5mm, but I would honestly find a shop with a binding tester and slip and six pack in someone’s hand and have them do a quick test at where you have them now and where the 5mm also puts you.

you don’t need them to “record” it for their records or legal shit. I used to do that stuff for guys all the time. They get all worried about legal crap. All they have to do is not pass the binding on the sheet. And they have removed any legal issues on their end. Same with indeminified bindings. They can function fine.

[HAB]

The Dual WTR P12/14 has different toe wings than the GW one. You can convert P15s and 18s by swapping AFDs, but not 12s/14s.

But IIRC the Dual AFD is GW compatible in the Alpine position.

[Alpinord]

Thanks. I was thinking the wings could be part of the mix and I should bring them in to a shop. Problem is my trusted go-toos have since moved on….we’ll see.

Also, I did consider putting back on the WTRs.

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[Alpinord]

What could possibly go wrong?




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[justo8484]

Shim to raise the old alpine toe slightly higher off the new GW AFD so the sole clears? Guessing those are 3D printed, any chance you'd share the file or offer them up for sale assuming they work?

[Alpinord]

Shim to raise the old alpine toe slightly higher off the new GW AFD so the sole clears? Guessing those are 3D printed, any chance you'd share the file or offer them up for sale assuming they work?

They're within 0.5mm of working and fine tuning at the moment.

I am thinking & torn about adding these & other shims, cants and BC heel blocks (ie, ATK) to the mix. It's a huge rabbit hole and I'm not sure if that and/or putting these out for general consumption to be printed w/PLA is a good idea or not. The user needs to assume the risk and they need to be printed with supports and then post printing clean up.

In the mean time, after I get them dialed and tested (any guinea pigs?) these will be printed out of:

Carbon Fiber Infused Extreme PETG Pro
Engineering grade PETG resin with USA made premium MILLED carbon fiber NOT powder or dust.
PETG is a newer printing filament and has the advantage of printing easily like PLA, but offering higher temp and impact resistance like ABS.

Carbon fiber infused filament benefits:
• Increased rigidity / strength
• Highly desirable texture / look
• Greatly reduced part shrink / warp
• Greatly reduced stringing / angel hairs
• Printed parts hold better details / sharp corners

See the following post and cross posted below for back ground on the fit.

Anyone know what years these P14s had the base plate shown below?

[Alpinord]

Attachment 478957
Attachment 478959

Seems similar on a general scale to the post above

Edit: I pulled my old toe. It looks like with some [selective shimming] will allow it to seat on the GW plate:

Attachment 479852

Attachment 479853

Attachment 479854

Attachment 479855

Attachment 479856

Attachment 479857

….but how the height from wings to AFD might need some adjustment.

Attachment 479858

Attachment 479859

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[Alpinord]

Now I’m thinking the main difference is simply the thickness of the middle of the base plates. The middle of original base plate is flush with sides. The GE plates are recessed. I’m sure there is something else, but throwing them back on the skis, I’m not finding any other substantial, geometric difference….yet:

Attachment 479884

Attachment 479885

Attachment 479886

Attachment 479887

As far as I can see, an infill piece needs to be part of the mix or a frankenplate like the one previously, might be an option to get the geometry correct.

(This side topic might be best to include in the Grip Walk vs WTR thread: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-Vs-WTR-Pivots)


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[justo8484]

Anyone know what years these P14s had the base plate shown below?

Pretty sure those are late 90s to ~2005 or so, prior to the launch of the PX series.

[Alpinord]

Pretty sure those are late 90s to ~2005 or so, prior to the launch of the PX series.

Mine are the same as ::: :::, who says his are 2014 . Mine might be a couple few years or so older.



So, it'd be nice to know and communicate what years the base plate for this toe piece was used relative to the shim & GW base plate.