teaching/coaching skiing--squared up or countered?

[ptavv]

I can definitely say that in our program coaches do work to some extent on driving inside hand forward. Exactly when in the turn or whether goal is to get square or slightly countered I do not know - I actually assume at developmental levels the exact position is not important but rather a means to counteract a tendency to drop hand back that correlates with rotation and is not good.

A million years ago when I raced the 'hands out front' wasn't so much a trick to manipulate our hip or shoulder positioning as it was to keep us forward and athletic so that if/when our balance faltered our hands would instinctively pull in to counteract it and by punching them back forward we could easily reattain the forward athletic stance.

Fwiw I don't know what ski racer development is teaching these days but some of my friends' kids have gotten some freeride coaching and they seem to be pretty firmly on the "shoulders stay pointed down the fall line" (ie mild counter) school of thought. Though that probably has to do with force generation and efficiency being less important than optimal balance through more variable terrain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GoldMember]

Hey Dexter - BTW, Tech Talk, JONG. Seriously, WTF?

[Viva]

No, this is a general ski question.

TechTalk is where one inquires about the latest model of the LS9000.

[kootenayskier]

Unless they’re fused, all skiers hips move through square when transitioning between turns. It’s a question of range. I developed my habits when Stenmark personified technical perfection, and more exaggerated counter rotation was both technically valid and aesthetically ideal. Gear and technique has obviously evolved in the past 35 years, and modern racers utilize a much more squared body position (amongst numerous other refinements), but they still move through square into (less) counter in each turn. There seem endless ways to talk about it, so go with whatever makes sense to you.
When I’m making lazy arcs on an intermediate groomer, I actually love the sensation of dropping my hip into an exaggerated countered position, and couldn’t care less if it’s fast or efficient.

[californiagrown]

I actually love the sensation and couldn’t care less if it’s fast or efficient.

I firmly believe this is the way. Play around with turn shapes, ways to make those turns, and then do what feels the most fun on that next turn, that day, on that terrain, in those snow conditions.

[old goat]

Counter rotation is what they teach noobs so that their inside hand doesn't wind up over the tail of their inside ski, with their outside hand up above their had, just before the whole package hits the snow and they blow out their ACL. They never actually wind up countered but close enough to stay upright.
Anyway, it's the eyes that matter.
And what do pictures of WC GS turns have to do with the way we ski?

[J. Barron DeJong]

And what do pictures of WC GS turns have to do with the way we ski?

I thought everyone on here was a WC level athlete. Please don’t tell me I’m mistaken.

[Northway]

[QUOTE=old goat;6724331
And what do pictures of WC GS turns have to do with the way we ski?[/QUOTE]

We are more the same than different, my friend.

[TBS]

This sounds like a fun game. Certainly more fun than whatever the hell this thread is.

Square or counter?

Attachment 432753

Jethro Tull is the obvious answer

I thought everyone on here was a WC level athlete. Please don’t tell me I’m mistaken.

Two years ago I was helping coach some U9 racer kids. I crashed hard on one run, prompting the youngest to ask “did you used to be good?”
I don’t care who you are, that is fucking funny!

Then at end of season I’m wearing really old Marker spring weight gloves with Olympic Rings and 2002 embroidered. Picked them up in Park City or Ogden after Olympics on deep discount

Kid sez “where did you get those gloves?”
Me: “at the Olympics”
“You were in the Olympics!? In what?”
“Skiercross. I was 7th. These were team issue gloves. It’s from when I used to be good”

He goes to other coach, asks “was TBS in the Olympics?”
“Yep. But right after he had a heinous crash…major brain injury, multiple broken bones. They thought he’d never walk again, let alone ski. It’s kinda sad…He really used to be good”

Ford:
Attachment 432724

Local Boy!

[Harry]

I thought everyone on here was a WC level athlete. Please don’t tell me I’m mistaken.

Yeah, but I can’t believe these beaters are WC level, I’m a way better skier than all of them.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Heh.



This sounds like a fun game. Certainly more fun than whatever the hell this thread is.

Square or counter?

Attachment 432753

When I came across the following photo/diagram I thought of Dan's post. I donÂ’t know what it's trying to show and donÂ’t care, but I do wonder if such things have ever helped anyone improve at all.




Talk about overcomplicating.

And what do pictures of WC GS turns have to do with the way we ski?

Northway nailed the answer to that, but generally I think it can only help to look at video and try to emulate. Thought I made clear I was asking in the context of working with ski racers (who really are actively trying to ski the way the WC guys do).

I mean, skiing's no different than any other sport--people always look at what the best are doing and see how it can help them, even if it doesn't always make sense for them to do so.

[Conundrum]

I mean, skiing's no different than any other sport--people always look at what the best are doing and see how it can help them, even if it doesn't always make sense for them to do so.

If it’s so much like other sports, how do recreational skiers keep score?

GNAR points of course. How many GNAR points is a squared vs countered worth? None.

[old goat]

When I came across the following photo/diagram I thought of Dan's post. I donÂ’t know what it's trying to show and donÂ’t care, but I do wonder if such things have ever helped anyone improve at all.




Talk about overcomplicating.



.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you tried to think of all that you'd ski into a tree.

[rod9301]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you tried to think of all that you'd ski into a tree.

True, but you do one at the time.
For the last 4 years I've been working on countering and angulation and it's really helped my skiing.
That and jump turns for steep, narrow couloirs.

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[jackstraw]

Has this thread determined which way your ass faces riding switch to the road?

[Viva]

Crack towards fall line, duh.

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[anotherVTskibum]

I thought everyone on here was a WC level athlete. Please don’t tell me I’m mistaken.

Does having Norwegian and Swedish national team cars in the hotel lot count?

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[J. Barron DeJong]

Does having Norwegian and Swedish national team cars in the hotel lot count?

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Only if you’re at a Holiday Inn Express.