Wasatch 22/23 - Gondolas, grooming highboy, and other comical anecdotes

[beaterdit]

Short run because it terminated in a gully. Debris was deeper than probe length in quite a few spots.

Damn, sobering.

[tBatt]

Damn, sobering.

Yeah. Witness said he was standing there watching the wind loading and it naturally triggered right in front of him. Sounds more like he remotely triggered it and he didn't realize how close to death he was. Unsure how close he actually was.

[brutah]

Attachment 436684

Apparently this may be the norm with the new Trams. Heard from a bud the new trams are even less wind friendly AND the software will shut ‘em down without many ways to manually override as the operators were able in the past. Curious if anyone can verify??

If true, may see this alert quite regularly…


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Sounds like a rumor as rich as Jupiter not running at PCMR this winter.... But I have no idea.

I skied the bird today and it was pretty windy up high. Little cloud and Peruvian also were on wind hold when I left, not sure if they re-opened

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[headrush]

BCC is so fucked this year. First time in BCC yesterday, line-up started at 7 AM. and for what? skied out solitude bumps?

Agreed. Took me 2 hours and 45 minutes to get up the canyon yesterday. I was doing some route experimentation. My experiment was an epic failure.

[Benneke10]

no instabilities noted and some of the best turns of the year.

Appreciate you sharing stoke but the reason you saw few people is that you skied terrain that is quite risky in these conditions. West Monitor and the NE face of Soldier Peak had huge slides this weekend and they are about the same aspect, elevation, and slope angle as the Meadow Chutes. I respect your decision to ski those lines but I take some issue with posting "no instabilities noted" on a forum like this. I'm happy you had good turns and ended up safe.

[BobMc]

Sounds like a rumor as rich as Jupiter not running at PCMR this winter.... But I have no idea.

I skied the bird today and it was pretty windy up high. Little cloud and Peruvian also were on wind hold when I left, not sure if they re-opened

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Yeah, could definitely see why the tram wasn’t running. Little Cloud and Peruvian both reopened, windbuff was delicious. My son skied with me today and realized he made a mistake getting a Brighton pass this year. The difference in traffic, parking and crowds is stark.

I’m not sure whether it’ll be cyclical and next season the LCC will be mobbed?

[sfotex]

Appreciate you sharing stoke but the reason you saw few people is that you skied terrain that is quite risky in these conditions. West Monitor and the NE face of Soldier Peak had huge slides this weekend and they are about the same aspect, elevation, and slope angle as the Meadow Chutes. I respect your decision to ski those lines but I take some issue with posting "no instabilities noted" on a forum like this. I'm happy you had good turns and ended up safe.

To contrast things, I did a few laps in Green's on Saturday. I experienced whomping, shooting cracks and collapsing all over the place. The buried facet layer was very evident. However on the ski out on the West facing slope is was an ice layer and roller ball city. I'm really not into arm chair QBing, but I think it's ok to ask people to expand on their terrain choices on iffy days.

[wra]

Appreciate you sharing stoke but the reason you saw few people is that you skied terrain that is quite risky in these conditions. West Monitor and the NE face of Soldier Peak had huge slides this weekend and they are about the same aspect, elevation, and slope angle as the Meadow Chutes. I respect your decision to ski those lines but I take some issue with posting "no instabilities noted" on a forum like this. I'm happy you had good turns and ended up safe.

Actually, neither West Monitor or Soldier are similar to the meadows.



The slide in West Monitor was in a traditionally rocky area which seldom sees skier traffic. I skied West Monitor on Wednesday. Crust-facet with the crust quite stout. Needs more load for the big one.
The slide happened out of the frame, looker's right.



The wind was just starting up on the high peaks.



I have personal experience (close encounters of the fourth kind) with Soldier Fork and it has almost nothing in common with what Reid skied.
If you have interest in weak snow I'd suggest Millcreek. I was in Yellow Jacket and Alexander Basin yesterday, getting unsupportable under, whatever, slab.
Lacking personal knowledge, best to keep opinions on others actions private.

[ikonfreewasatch]

My son has a Brighton pass this season and has been reporting insanity over in that canyon this season. Today Solitude was road parked both sides all the way down to Silver Fork restaurant. There were people parking at the Brighton store and walking down to Solitude.

Do we need two gondolas? Heh.

everyone in the salt lake valley with an ikon pass is at solitude now because solitude is ikon unlimited but don’t worry all those hoards of ikonic beaters who line up at 7am to ski hardpacked bumps will soon start using their days in LCC turning LCC into an ikonic shitshow too.

get rid of the ikon pass and we won’t need any gondolas

[telefreewasatch]

Great post, Bob.

[NBABUCKS1]

everyone in the salt lake valley with an ikon pass is at solitude now because solitude is ikon unlimited but don’t worry all those hoards of ikonic beaters who line up at 7am to ski hardpacked bumps will soon start using their days in LCC turning LCC into an ikonic shitshow too.

get rid of the ikon pass and we won’t need any gondolas

they've invaded snowbasin already. Freedom isn't free.

[Xover]

Great post, Bob.

2nd. That last photo is

[tgapp]

2nd. That last photo is

3rd. Content like this is what makes this place so special. TFW and WRA's posts are consistently informative, well thought-out, and incredibly helpful. Don't often comment but I read everything you guys share and pay attention to what you're saying. Extremely helpful, thank you for taking the time.

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[sfotex]

Lacking personal knowledge, best to keep opinions on others actions private.

I pretty much hate social media, but it's here and I have to live with it. When you post shit up on the interwebs I don't think your actions are private anymore. After watching a member here nearly get snuffed a few years ago, followed by 4 deaths in Wilson Glade (as the party posted to the 'Gram on their tour..) the very next weekend I think it's fair to ask someone what they saw/why their choice was good on a somewhat iffy day. Maybe what they skied was fine based on empirical evidence, but throw it up there. "The slope was scoured out by the wind " , "It had already slid when we skied it" The last few seasons of seen a trend of accidents involving really experienced educated backcountry skiers getting snuffed trying to game the PWLs.
</rant>

[turnfarmer]

Meadow Chutes are a huge area. Parts are mostly safe. But center punching the Football Field or skiing El Rollo would certainly be hanging it out there on the day in question.

[telefreewasatch]

I pretty much hate social media, but it's here and I have to live with it. When you post shit up on the interwebs I don't think your actions are private anymore. After watching a member here nearly get snuffed a few years ago, followed by 4 deaths in Wilson Glade (as the party posted to the 'Gram on their tour..) the very next weekend I think it's fair to ask someone what they saw/why their choice was good on a somewhat iffy day. Maybe what they skied was fine based on empirical evidence, but throw it up there. "The slope was scoured out by the wind " , "It had already slid when we skied it" The last few seasons of seen a trend of accidents involving really experienced educated backcountry skiers getting snuffed trying to game the PWLs.
</rant>

Your points except the last are good ones.
"really experienced" is a relative term, and "really educated" doesn't correlate equally to experience.

And all here truly appreciate your contributions to other's poor choices.

Benneke wasn't asking why and what his actions were, he condemned them. That's the difference.

Hell the forecast center rose was high on Thursday, and considerable on Friday for all aspects on upper and mid elevations.
With hurricane and near hurricane force winds coming from a common quarter.
Really?
High hazard on WSW after crusts were getting stripped?
They put out forecasts for the lowest denominators those two days.

Point is that when someone like getoutside posts both where he was, and "no instabilities noted", we can learn from that and not condemn outright. Appears he was alone as well, no?
Pretty confident in his decision making...

[mar123]

"really experienced" is a relative term, and "really educated" doesn't correlate equally to experience.

And the mountains dont give a shit.

[Boissal]

Hell the forecast center rose was high on Thursday, and considerable on Friday for all aspects on upper and mid elevations.
With hurricane and near hurricane force winds coming from a common quarter.
Really?
High hazard on WSW after crusts were getting stripped?
They put out forecasts for the lowest denominators those two days.

Point is that when someone like getoutside posts both where he was, and "no instabilities noted", we can learn from that and not condemn outright.

Hear hear.
UAC forecasting seems to have changed quite a bit in the past 3 to 4 years. We seem to get a lot of "blanket" forecasts with a rose showing uniform danger across aspects with the only difference being elevation (which correlates directly with the amount of snow on the ground). The days of intricate forecasts with nuance and variability seem to be fading and now we get the ALL CAPS YOU'RE GOING TO GET LANCHED stuff quite often. It might be helpful for conveying a sense of general danger to people who aren't particularly experienced but it also tends to lump a whole lot of potentially safe zones with "generic" dangerous terrain (high and steep N and E). I get why it's happening but it's not going to help people refine their understanding of what's out there. TFW is on point, calling W and SW high danger these past few days when the winds were basically stripping those slopes to the ground and moving all their snow on the other side of the ridge made no sense. The danger was wind slabs compounding with a weak layer and you sure as shit didn't see too many wind slabs forming on non-lee aspects, making that weak layer irrelevant since it was getting, well, unloaded.

As usual, armchair QBing people's decisions based on the history of a particular slope or the color on the rose is a nice Karen move but doesn't bring all that much to the table. Unless the decision was particularly idiotic (skiing certain shots in the Meadow Chutes area certainly wasn't), you really are in no place to shit on it the next day on TGR.

[Benneke10]

Benneke wasn't asking why and what his actions were, he condemned them. That's the difference.

I was not condemning the actions, I respect them. One could argue I made riskier choices myself this weekend. I took issue with the general tone of the post, but I read what you and WRA post and you guys know more than me and I am a noob so I'll keep the judgement to myself going forward.

[telefreewasatch]

I'll keep the judgement to myself going forward.

Thanks, Ben.

btw this is my favorite sign at Altabird.
Gotta read the fine print.

[ski_the_fraulein]

Thanks, Ben.

btw this is my favorite sign at Altabird.
Gotta read the fine print.

Awesome sign!


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[wasatchgravityresearch]

I'm really not into arm chair QBing, but I think it's ok to ask people to expand on their terrain choices on iffy days.

I really love this sentiment. Can we please engage in thoughtful conversation about backcountry terrain choices without name calling and immediately shutting the conversation down? I think the general attitude of eliminating all discussion and questioning of lines we all ski and the conditions/days we ski them is extremely unhelpful (See: “Lacking personal knowledge, best to keep opinions on others actions private.”). Often I feel that we surround ourselves with too many "yes men" who encourage our decisions rather than asking us why we chose to ski that line when we did. Some of the most experienced backcountry skiers in our community have made the most questionable decisions in the last few years, so personally I would really like to hear from those "lacking personal knowledge" rather than hearing the opinions of those who have gotten away with it for decades and calling it wisdom. To quote TFW, "really experienced" is a relative term, and "really educated" doesn't correlate equally to experience." (Sorry, still learning how to do multiple quotes replies in one post) Often I am skinning around, shuffling my Rolodex of boring low angle terrain that won't kill me, and I see bigger and better lines being center punched. Yes I am judgmental, to say otherwise would be lying, but more than anything I would love to talk with those skiers and ask them what makes them feel safe on a slope that is over 30 degrees, wind loaded, PWL present, and rated considerable. The way our community operates, this discussion would be immediately shot down and being rude or judgmental. Maybe I'm missing something, and if I had that knowledge I would have more fun out there. I think as a community of backcountry skiers we really need to do a better job of encouraging discussion on terrain selection, and not shutting it down immediately because someone is being a "Karen". If you don't want judgement on what you've skied, don't post it on a forum or other social media. This is literally a "forum" for discussion and I think that discussion on terrain/avalanche conditions is one of the most important things we could talk about. The gondola/red snake/ikon pass/development/lift lines won't claim lives of our friends and loved ones but avalanches will. There can be middle ground between accusing others of skiing dangerous terrain and advertising it and on the other side shutting all conversation about terrain choices down because you don't agree. We should all be challenged on our terrain choices, it would make the community safer and more educated, there would be more partners/friends/husbands/wives/children around these days. One day I will keep these posts shorter but I guess today is not that day.

[telefreewasatch]

Fair points, wgr.
I think what wra is saying, and what I am definitely saying is that asking questions to learn is well and good, judging is not.
I've dug up a lot of dead people over the years as has sfotex.
Never judged any of them.
Even though some calls have one scratching one's head.
No one is dropping in thinking they're gonna die.
To be "really experienced" during high hazard means years of experience in that particular place.

[Slowtimer14]

Rose must've scared folks away today since even in traditionally mobbed areas the only competition was a lonely moose and some woodpeckers. Thanks for the discussion and appreciate everyone being civil and open to opinion. Stay light!

[teleee]

To be "really experienced" during high hazard means years of experience in that particular place.

SO! MUCH ! THIS!

After spending 30 years in the Wasatch, I had spots that I was intimately familiar with and could almost tell you exactly what a pit would look like on any given day. It was based on being out there constantly and observing the weather and my experiences of similar conditions over those 30 years. Now, having moved to Colorado in an area that is completely different I have to say it is terrifying to have lost the familiarity. Even though I have skied in the backcountry for over 3 decades I am suddenly a complete novice. It has been eye opening to say the least.



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