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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,520
    Quote Originally Posted by jacob_dbu View Post
    Battery packs are almost universally heavier than canister packs. The motor and fan drives are heavy…although they are rapidly refining them and dialing in the safety factor (which was probably much too high for gen1).

    I agree the BCA doesn’t feel super heavy. Although lighter is always nicer…
    That may have been true until recently. There are now multiple battery offerings that beat comparable canister packs on weight. Mammut and BCA's canister options look especially heavy now. Granted, most of the competitive battery options are LiTRIC packs which have not been proven. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...FaQ9g/pubhtml#

    I need to get to a shop and play around with the new Ortovox and BCA options. On paper the weight savings of LiTRIC is very compelling, but usable capacity and feature set aren't comparable on a spreadsheet. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by the BCA.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335
    I would love to add a custom stash bag to the bottom of my Scott Patrol - something secure I could stash skins and a bike water bottle into. I find accessing the free space inside airbag packs during quick transitions annoying and inefficient.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,211
    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    I would love to add a custom stash bag to the bottom of my Scott Patrol - something secure I could stash skins and a bike water bottle into. I find accessing the free space inside airbag packs during quick transitions annoying and inefficient.
    Yeah the normal top-loading doesn’t really work in an airbag pack because that’s usually where the airbag stuff goes

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335
    Yeah plus the shovel/prove pocket holds that gear right in behind the airbag - so when using either pocket you’re stuffing gear past this stuff down into the open space beneath it. The majority of free space lies deep underneath the airbag and battery/fan - which is fine for food and first aid/repair kit but is annoying for things you move at every transition.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Lost in the PNWet
    Posts
    384
    Took the gamble and my Ortovox Litric Tour 40 showed up today.

    Few first impressions:

    • Cinches down well enough that it almost makes the zip system redundant.
    • Back panel is stiff and very supportive
    • Included helmet carry isn't really designed for people that have to use longitudinal degrees to measure their heads. Smith Summit in L is on the outside of the adjustment range.
    • Shovel/Probe pocket can only fit a BD Evac 7 if you put the handle in upside down to accommodate the goose-neck shaft, but it does fit. Any straight-shaft shovel of similar or smaller size should have no issue but I have a hard time seeing a larger blade fitting, regardless of shaft design.
    • If there's a way to remove the Litric unit, it isn't immediately evident. Ortovox included an "Air Travel Information" pamphlet to keep with it when flying. Their official stance is that it is PPE, not luggage, and falls under category DGR 2.3.A (portable electronic device) with a 100 Wh limit. Worst case scenario, I could see just fully unzipping the circumferential zipper and stuffing it in a normal carry-on.
    • My cheapo luggage scale seems to confirm manufacturer's weight.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    3,268
    Anyone get hands on with the Arcteryx Micon Litric 30? My buddy was told 2100g weight which seems way too light. We are both using Arcteryx Voltair, 3465g, so it's a pretty damn big weight savings if those claimed weights are anywhere near true.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by Ørion View Post
    Took the gamble and my Ortovox Litric Tour 40 showed up today.

    Few first impressions:

    • Cinches down well enough that it almost makes the zip system redundant.
    • Back panel is stiff and very supportive
    • Included helmet carry isn't really designed for people that have to use longitudinal degrees to measure their heads. Smith Summit in L is on the outside of the adjustment range.
    • Shovel/Probe pocket can only fit a BD Evac 7 if you put the handle in upside down to accommodate the goose-neck shaft, but it does fit. Any straight-shaft shovel of similar or smaller size should have no issue but I have a hard time seeing a larger blade fitting, regardless of shaft design.
    • If there's a way to remove the Litric unit, it isn't immediately evident. Ortovox included an "Air Travel Information" pamphlet to keep with it when flying. Their official stance is that it is PPE, not luggage, and falls under category DGR 2.3.A (portable electronic device) with a 100 Wh limit. Worst case scenario, I could see just fully unzipping the circumferential zipper and stuffing it in a normal carry-on.
    • My cheapo luggage scale seems to confirm manufacturer's weight.
    I very much agree with all of these. Able to fit a D handle shovel in but just barely.

    What's funny is as I read the regulations it seems to allow for it to be checked, but that is contradictory to what all the other information sources say.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,689
    That posted graphic looks like an excerpt from the recommendations of IATA, an industry association that has no bearing on TSA rules (if the concern is travel within the U.S.).

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Lost in the PNWet
    Posts
    384
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    That posted graphic looks like an excerpt from the recommendations of IATA, an industry association that has no bearing on TSA rules (if the concern is travel within the U.S.).
    Weirdly, I haven't found any extra restrictions from the TSA on non-removable lithium batteries.

    The entire controversy is that the IATA's description of smart luggage with non-removable batteries is vague enough to also technically cover a Litric bag. AFAIK there's only been one incident in Europe so far though.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    246
    I got my hands on the new dead bird LiTRIC 40L pack through SAR. We ordered maybe 12 or 15 for people of various sizes (5'2" to 6'8").
    •I think they only come in large (at least that's what we ordered), which was way too big for some of the shorter people, and feels a little small for those of us 6'2" and taller.
    •I am used to Mystery Ranch packs for load carrying and I find this pack to be not as good, but acceptable.
    •It is very light.
    •No zippered hip pockets, but one side has a stretchy mesh stash pocket. I will likely sew on hip pockets or get some that fit over from 511.
    •Other side has a gear loop for things that dangle.
    •Like Summit said, the avy gear pocket is clumsy, side access that is hard to efficiently get my 330 BCA probe out of. I wish they put it on the bottom of the pack, like my POC PVD 20L pack.
    -There is access through the main compartment, but why?
    •Compression straps either go over the avy pocket or just in front of the zipper (with less compression available).
    •Haven't played with the helmet carry, but a friend uses one from another pack that is much lighter than the Arc'teryx supplied one.
    •Never had to tour with a backpack you need to remember to charge, so that is a learning curve for me but its all in the game.
    •I have flown with it. No problems though TSA or Alaska airlines (minus questions about the steel cable in the probe).
    •When flying however, I did stuff the pack to the gills. When walking around the airport the zipper for the airbag kept unzipping, which was annoying.
    •Main compartment zipper is waterproof, but the bag material is not very stretchy, so while zipping the zipper can get kind of folded - which is annoying.
    •Not sure if I am just not transitioning quick enough, but any time I tour during weather everything seems to get wet in the top compartment. Probably user error.
    •No A frame carry, but that probably goes without saying for airbag packs. I like A frame for climbing and bike riding, but not really an issue.
    •You can string a bladder hose or radio wire through the shoulder strap without the trigger.

    I am not a backpack designer, but I think it would make more sense to put the battery fan and air intake at the bottom of the pack. This would necessitate a way to get that air up into the pack, but it would also free up the most usable space and move the mesh air intake from the side (where rain and snow get into the pack) to the bottom.

    If I got to choose, I would probably go with the Ortovox pack that you can change out the volume. Or since I am a MR fanboy, they should do the colab with ortovox and make a bomber airbag pack.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    131
    a raide fl40 pack with airbag would be the cats meow

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335

    Ortovox/Arcteryx LiTRIC Airbags

    Agreed with a lot of what Moko posted above. I’m comparing it to my Scott E1 40L pack

    1. Noticeably lighter by a lot.

    2. No zippered hip pocket but as mentioned it has a stretchy mesh “pocket” good enough for lip balm and an energy gel packet

    3. Avy pocket has both side access and top access but the top access is through the main compartment- so you would open main zipper to expose inside of main pocket where there is a zippered access into top of avi tool pocket.

    4. Airbag, inflator, battery are nicely tucked up very high - which is big difference from E1 system where the electronics and fan are smack dab in the middle of your pack which makes it awkward to pack around.

    5. Didn’t get to use ski carry system to see if it pulls open the airbag zipper (which can be an issue on my Scott pack)

    6. Accessory pocket is on very top of pack and has good volume for snacks, small gloves, goggles/glasses. Way more functional than the 2 interior pockets on the Scott pack.

    7. Helmet holder is superior than the junky one that comes on the Scott pack

    Is it a perfect airbag pack? No. But it’s more functional than the Scott and is way lighter. I’ll be selling the Scott and moving into it once it’s available to the general public.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335



  14. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335



  15. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    11,335


  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    19,420
    I've had a dead bird pack with those zippers. They all will fail horribly.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

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