TAHOE 22/23 -THE YEAR OF THE (t)RAM

**old goat** · 12-06-2022, 08:05 PM

The reasons to be against the OV development are 1) that unless the new proposal is much better in the old (I haven't read the new yet) the transportation mitigation fees were grossly inadequate, and in the past when the issue was litigted the CA AG (K Harris) said Placer could use the fees any way they want, not necessarily in the N Tahoe, Truckee area, 2) the fire evacuation plan was not adequately addressed (it was shelter in place) 3) workforce housing was grossly inadequate, which means higher rents and housing costs for anyone within commuting distance of OV. Those are the reasons off the top of my head.

Also, while it is not a valid argument to use w the supes, we will lose a ton of parking. There will be some parking at the bottom of OV Rd, which will require a shuttle. The rest of us will have to park at AM--which has much less parking which already fills before lifts open on weekends, and take the Gondola to OV. Or some of us might be able to pay for parking at OV, if there is any left over after the owners of the new condos claim their spot. It means Palisades--both sides--will no longer be a ski area for locals, day skiers from the valley and Reno, or even people renting rooms outside OV. It will become a ski area only for those moneyed enough to stay in the new or old village or in OV houses within microtransit reach of the lifts. So if you want to keep skiing at Palisades, oppose the project.

I have no doubt the supes will approve and I have no doubt it will go back to court.

**old goat** · 12-06-2022, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tamburello Rouge

Summit opened today as well as Siberia Express.

Glad to hear about Summit. It wasn't on the schedule. Siberia was all along, but only low RT. Big Blue, FWIW was on the schedule but didn't open by 1P--I assume lack of manpower.
Friday's operations blog said they needed a couple more feet in the runout to open Summit, (which I guess they got over the weekend.) which is kind of hilarious, because they've been running Roundhouse, which of course uses the same runout.

I assume the problem is lack of manpower. I don't know if any resort employees are involved with Red Dog and the gondola--I would guess not, but if they are maybe they should be getting lifts open instead. Last year Sugar Bowl had an employee crunch and to deal with it they were honest about it with the passholderes and they stopped rentals and most of the food service and put everyone they could on lifts. If Palisades is having an employee crunch, either because they tried to hire and couldn't, or because they figured they would run low tide until xmas, they should be transparent about it.

**Spats** · 12-06-2022, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

I assume the problem is lack of manpower.

For decades Squaw/"Palisades" has put lifts on money hold whenever they feel like they can get away with it.
They've always got some limp excuse, but the real reason is always "This is expert terrain that's mostly only skied by local dirtbags, and we already got their season pass dollars, so we don't really care."

Silverado is the first lift to go on money hold, but they'll happily not run anything not typically skied by condo owners/renters.

**powdork** · 12-06-2022, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar

PD, I think what he’s getting at is that there’s enough of that use type in the basin and that maybe incorporating another use type such as workforce/attainable housing might be better for the residents. I think a middle ground could be found personally but it would take some big decisions by Washoe County BCC to support any appeals for denying a project such as this. Then it’d likely get challenged and overruled in the courts if the BCC did support that.

I see. I was confused because everything below his link was about Placer and Olympic Valley.
https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/art...s-16913594.php

Still, that's pretty prime real estate to be expecting it to become attainable housing and it's likely already zoned as hotel rooms. Hotel rooms also make homes available as they remove demand from vacation rentals and are a necessary option when making vacation rental bans/limitations. To me, the goal is tourists staying in hotels and workers living in homes, moreso than housing.

**GoSlowGoFar** · 12-06-2022, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by powdork

I see. I was confused because everything below his link was about Placer and Olympic Valley.
https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/art...s-16913594.php

Still, that's pretty prime real estate to be expecting it to become attainable housing and it's likely already zoned as hotel rooms. Hotel rooms also make homes available as they remove demand from vacation rentals and are a necessary option when making vacation rental bans/limitations. To me, the goal is tourists staying in hotels and workers living in homes, moreso than housing.

I agree that it’s extremely unlikely, was just trying to guess what his concerns were. A cap would need to be proposed on STRs in the County in order to move folks to the hotels. Which I definitely support but also don’t see an appetite for within the BCC.

**~mikey b** · 12-07-2022, 08:37 AM

https://content.palisadestahoe.com/e...l_QtacuYaDHw94

Palisades is doing a couple of $109 Learn To Ski deals - Dec 10 & 11

2.5 hour lesson, rental and limited lift ticket

**TruckeeLove** · 12-07-2022, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Spats

For decades Squaw/"Palisades" has put lifts on money hold whenever they feel like they can get away with it.
….
Silverado is the first lift to go on money hold.

Money hold has been an issue, no doubt. But in the case of Silverado in particular, they have a real issue with emergency access. They need to be able evac an injured skier out of there, which means having enough snow to get a motorized vehicle/sled in there to the bottom. For Silverado that takes a lot of snow cover, even more than what is needed to make it skiable back there. But I can’t disagree that sometimes it’s just about paying to staff and run a lift that only a few experts will hit.

**mcski** · 12-07-2022, 12:59 PM

I can’t recall EVER skiing Silverado when there wasn’t tons of access for sled coverage...even though it was closed the weeks prior or the week after for no discernible reason. While access may be an issue some times late or early season, it is not an explanation for the rest of the year

As much as i disagreed w Alex, I’ve come around to see him as a far better owner than anyone since

**skier666** · 12-07-2022, 01:04 PM

FWIW Silverado had a good run last season...but don't remember when it closed. Remember, we didn't get much last year so the bottom probably melted out early.

These weekend storms are wreaking havoc on my family's plans - rolling the dice if 1) lifts stay open and of course 2) ski team running so dad actually can rip some turns [/endofrant]

**Westcoaster** · 12-07-2022, 01:06 PM

Yesterday was fantastic. Sunrise tour off 89, up high the clear night dried out the snow. Only minor signs of instability, ~18 inches on top of that saturday rain event.

Was so good went out after lunch off the crest. Similar conditions. Touchy out there, but plenty to ski.

**janky** · 12-07-2022, 02:04 PM

Far West Skiing just canceled the U16 Slalom and GS race at Mammoth this weekend. It was meant to be Sat/Sun/Mon/Tue. I'm surprised they cancelled the entire race but not shocked looking at the models. 12Z GFS run this morning has 50" of snow from now until Monday.

**lepistoir** · 12-07-2022, 05:48 PM

Up near the crest yesterday and 2-3mm surface hoar widespread in start zones. Hopefully baked/blown off before getting buried tomorrow night. Keep an eye on it. This weekend's hype is already chugging.

**old goat** · 12-07-2022, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by TruckeeLove

Money hold has been an issue, no doubt. But in the case of Silverado in particular, they have a real issue with emergency access. They need to be able evac an injured skier out of there, which means having enough snow to get a motorized vehicle/sled in there to the bottom. For Silverado that takes a lot of snow cover, even more than what is needed to make it skiable back there. But I can’t disagree that sometimes it’s just about paying to staff and run a lift that only a few experts will hit.

That's not only an issue with Silvy. I had a patroller tell me one year that High Beaver and beyond was not open because there wasn't enough coverage down low to get a vehicle up. A few years ago when there were the avalanche deaths on Scott there was an issue getting a vehicle up, after which they built a road up Promised Land. I've also seen High Beaver closed because the traverse was too icy, until patrol chopped out a track with axes.

**TurxSki** · 12-07-2022, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by lepistoir

Up near the crest yesterday and 2-3mm surface hoar widespread in start zones. Hopefully baked/blown off before getting buried tomorrow night. Keep an eye on it. This weekend's hype is already chugging.

You just got "echoed" by the UCBerkeleyCSSL, no less.
Kudos mang!

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**powdork** · 12-07-2022, 07:40 PM

skied the resort today. less crowded than i remember. must be the high tix prices

**dookeyXXX** · 12-07-2022, 08:11 PM

The surface hoar was out in its best hot pants and stilettos, steady pimping for johns something fierce at The Star today; full crystallization supreme

Other’s that, the snow was chalky goodness.

**Consigliere** · 12-07-2022, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by TruckeeLove

Money hold has been an issue, no doubt. But in the case of Silverado in particular, they have a real issue with emergency access. They need to be able evac an injured skier out of there, which means having enough snow to get a motorized vehicle/sled in there to the bottom. For Silverado that takes a lot of snow cover, even more than what is needed to make it skiable back there. But I can’t disagree that sometimes it’s just about paying to staff and run a lift that only a few experts will hit.

Is it really that hard to get a sled back there? I don't ride them, but I would have thought it wouldn't be too hard to follow the shirley canyon trail from solitude, or essentially take one down land bridge?

**CC_skier** · 12-08-2022, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by climberevan

Come on by my 'hood if you want to visit those trees. They are pretty much all here.

Yes, they really did just build an industrial sawmill beside a residential area. No warning or comment period or anything was necessary since the Washoe were happy to lease the land with no questions asked. No need to worry about any pesky environmental, labor, or other laws either! Yay, capitalism.Attachment 436971

Yay capitalism? I think it's more yay sovereign rights. Washoe can do whatever they want with their land, and they should.

And the mill is a nice touch to Carson honestly. Gotta keep things rough around the edges, I don't need to see any more fur and Audi's on Carson St than I already do

**CC_skier** · 12-08-2022, 12:14 AM

Speaking of lifts not being open, anyone have a clue when the heck they're gonna open up Stagecoach? I can uphill it until then, but it'd be real nice to not have to go to California side.

**TahoeBC** · 12-08-2022, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by HJ5

Speaking of lifts not being open, anyone have a clue when the heck they're gonna open up Stagecoach? I can uphill it until then, but it'd be real nice to not have to go to California side.

I heard later this week, guessing maybe Friday but who knows if the weather will effect it.

**Shred Baron** · 12-08-2022, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Consigliere

Is it really that hard to get a sled back there? I don't ride them, but I would have thought it wouldn't be too hard to follow the shirley canyon trail from solitude, or essentially take one down land bridge?

From what I remember from my time there about 10 years ago, they don’t just want sled access, but they want snow cat access in case it needs to be used an an ambulance to get wrecks off the hill. That means they need the Oregon trail filled in enough to groom. Also I think it takes a fair amount of snow to build
The pod ramp at the bottom or fill in the creek or something of the sort.

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**meter-man** · 12-08-2022, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shred Baron

From what I remember from my time there about 10 years ago, they don’t just want sled access, but they want snow cat access in case it needs to be used an an ambulance to get wrecks off the hill. That means they need the Oregon trail filled in enough to groom. Also I think it takes a fair amount of snow to build
The pod ramp at the bottom or fill in the creek or something of the sort.

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That’s what their Ops blog (from 2021) says too:

https://blog.palisadestahoe.com/gene...ations-update/

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**SnowMachine** · 12-08-2022, 08:56 AM

FWIW, Solitude was open yesterday. Teams groms were over there slaying most of the afternoon.

I sent an email yesterday to Placer opposing the OV project that Alterra is so proud of. I got an immediate reply from a real person and an add on their mailing list for all things OV. I suggest anybody that cares, do the same. They'll certainly steamroll us, but at least we can say that we tried.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 12-08-2022, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Especially is not an absolute. So, in fact, those fallen logs that haven’t been harvested can, absolutely, be called lumber.

“lumber

noun.: timber or logs especially when dressed for use”

So they’re all limbed and bucked? I was just being stupid. Won’t that all get buried once you get a decent snowpack? I loved the tree skiing at Sierra when I skied there

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**tuacati** · 12-08-2022, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by HJ5

Yay capitalism? I think it's more yay sovereign rights. Washoe can do whatever they want with their land, and they should.

And the mill is a nice touch to Carson honestly. Gotta keep things rough around the edges, I don't need to see any more fur and Audi's on Carson St than I already do

Wow, you obviously don't live near the mill. I can almost throw rocks at it from my house.
The mill is bullshit. They start work at 6am. Do you think a mill is quiet?
I do agree a mill was needed, but not in my back yard. Perhaps yours is OK?