Canting

[XavierD]

You would be surprised in that of the people I do assessments on more than half are out of alignment. Whether they end up on the World Cup, those that do need it definately benefit from it.

If you’re looking for it, you can find it. I don’t hold it against any boot shop who does it. It’s an extra $200 for pretty minimal work (especially now with cantology plates) in a time where the margin on ski boots hasn’t kept up with labor/rent costs. Add in the placebo effect, and gearnerds’ natural desire to justify equipment tweaks it can be a great business model for smaller volume shops.

Anyone who isn’t naturally flat and balanced in a ski boot has pretty significant genetic ground they need to make up if they are going to develop at the right pace and compete at a world class level. That genetic set likely came with some other fun tweaks which will need to be overcome too.

While it can hold someone back from reaching the pinnacle of skiing, being slightly unbalanced in their ski boots isnt what’s holding 90% of the skiing public back in skiing. That’s not to say it isn’t valid for those who need it,

[Flexon Phil]

If you’re looking for it, you can find it. I don’t hold it against any boot shop who does it. It’s an extra $200 for pretty minimal work (especially now with cantology plates) in a time where the margin on ski boots hasn’t kept up with labor/rent costs. Add in the placebo effect, and gearnerds’ natural desire to justify equipment tweaks it can be a great business model for smaller volume shops.

Anyone who isn’t naturally flat and balanced in a ski boot has pretty significant genetic ground they need to make up if they are going to develop at the right pace and compete at a world class level. That genetic set likely came with some other fun tweaks which will need to be overcome too.

While it can hold someone back from reaching the pinnacle of skiing, being slightly unbalanced in their ski boots isnt what’s holding 90% of the skiing public back in skiing. That’s not to say it isn’t valid for those who need it,

I do the assessment along with some balance before/after and explain the benefits. Many will do it and of those many have come back and said they immediately felt a difference. I don't think it is a placebo and quite frankly I think it is more beneficial for the intermediate skier that is trying to get over the hump as compared to the high level rec skier that is more in tune with his/her body and has already made the needed adjustments.

[anotherVTskibum]

I'm off about 1.5 degrees on my left leg, right is very close to on the money. It's noticable, as I've had setups that were corrected previously, and at some point I'm planning to get my race boots planed accordingly.

With that said, I can ski around it in most scenarios, and it doesn't matter much off the groomers. Just don't ask me to ski with no poles and unbuckled boots on my left ski.

And my alignment is very, very far down the list of reasons I'm not a World Cup skier.

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[Yukonrider]

Thank you all for the input here. I have an update

Went back to the original shop and got re-meausred. This time came out at a 1.5 degree on both sides, so the fitter gave me a shim to put between my shell and liner which acts as a 1 degree cant of sorts. Told me to go ski some laps with the shim, and some without and see which feels better. If it feels good we will try a bigger shim, and eventually cant either the skis or the boots.

[One (+) Sentence]

OK, but putting a shim between your zeppa board and liner will affect fit. Grinding your sole or using Cantology would not. Isn’t the fitter able to have you stand on the shims on a hard surface with your boots on? That should give you a better idea of what the correction would feel like compared to stuffing stuff inside your boots. If the correction is beneficial, you should feel instantly more balanced and able to “press harder” through the boot.

Bet you’re happy you didn’t have them ground with a 5* correction right off the bat. No comment from the second fitter that 5* is a boarder-line insane amount?

Edit: now I kinda want to know what shop you are dealing with.

[Yukonrider]

OK, but putting a shim between your zeppa board and liner will affect fit. Grinding your sole or using Cantology would not. Isn’t the fitter able to have you stand on the shims on a hard surface with your boots on? That should give you a better idea of what the correction would feel like compared to stuffing stuff inside your boots. If the correction is beneficial, you should feel instantly more balanced and able to “press harder” through the boot.

Bet you’re happy you didn’t have them ground with a 5* correction right off the bat. No comment from the second fitter that 5* is a boarder-line insane amount?

Edit: now I kinda want to know what shop you are dealing with.

All good points. I have bird legs, so taking up space in the leg isn't a huge deal. I did stand on the strips, and it was nice, but I would like to see if canting works for me before making permanent changes. This way I can ski some runs, then take the shim out and ski some more and immedialty be able to tell a difference (hypothetically).

This is a temporary solution from the original fitter after I basically said "The internet says 3 and 5 degrees is insane", and "I don't want to have to cant all my skis".
This is simply a quick way to decide whether it is worth pursuing more permanent cant solutions.

I did NOT go see a second fitter, I've had other stuff going on and haven't had the time. I am using Brent at Park City Ski Boot, it was one of his employees that prescribed the 3 and 5 degree numbers, he himself prescribed the 1.5 on my second visit.

[Yukonrider]

Here are two photos of the temporary test solution.

[rod9301]

Putting something between the liner and the shell will be similar to adjusting the cuff angle, not anything to do with canting

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[SoVT Joey]

This isn’t doing anything more the making your knee and ankle compensate for a bunch of shit in your boot. Find a new boot fitter. And thanks for posting the place and people that should be fully avoided.

[skinipenem]

Is that Brent Amsbury? If so, and I remember correctly, he was featured in a cantology you tube video. He was extremely knowledgeable. This leads me to believe something is lost in translation here?

That being said, shimming between the boot and the liner is not the same as canting the boot sole. One would typically place a shim between the afd and boot sole at the toe to test out a shim (toe and heel if you're motivated.) Strip of duct tape work fine too. Skiing something chill you won't crash on of course.

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[Yukonrider]

Is that Brent Amsbury?
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Yes.

Maybe I'm not explaining this correctly, but supposedly this just brings my knees more into alignment with my big toe? Or whatever. This isn't a canting solution, if I understood him correctly it was a way to adjust my alignment similar to how canting would work to see if I noticed enough of a change to pursue adding canting strips under my bindings.

[skinipenem]

Yes.

Maybe I'm not explaining this correctly, but supposedly this just brings my knees more into alignment with my big toe? Or whatever. This isn't a canting solution, if I understood him correctly it was a way to adjust my alignment similar to how canting would work to see if I noticed enough of a change to pursue adding canting strips under my bindings.

Someone on here with me experience than me can comment. I do think there are ways to 'cheat' or partially mimick canting... this must be one of them.

My go to is to steal someone's credit card, cut it into strips, place said strips on one side of the afd, and ski away before they beat the shit of me.

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[SoVT Joey]

Someone on here with me experience than me can comment. I do think there are ways to 'cheat' or partially mimick canting... this must be one of them.

My go to is to steal someone's credit card, cut it into strips, place said strips on one side of the afd, and ski away before they beat the shit of me.

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this is the correct way. Yes it will bring your knee in over your toe but it will also apply pressure to the inside edge of your ski, because it’s pushing your knee laterally and rotating your ankle to compensate. Seriously do the strips of duct tape on the afd or slide a card in there after you ski your runs with and without that pad in your cuff. Then you will really know the difference. I don’t understand how this is so hard. We used to cant athletes on the hill. Literally stop them and put tape on afd’s during training and we could solve skiing issues on the hill. I guess when the ski industry doesnt pay well and equity and diversity is more important this is where we end up. Nothing like paying for a service you are supposed to trust and turning around and halving to ask the internet after for advice.



canting is to make the sole of the boot flat on the ski binding with even pressure side to side on the sole of the boot without the user having to manipulate knee or ankle to get to flat. So any pushing of the knee or ankle is not actually helping you get anything right. It’s making you attempt to ski differently.

[onenerdykid]

Brent is an incredibly well respected member of the boot fitting community and even helps with the development of Boot Doc products. If you told me you needed alignment work done, he is one of a small handful of shops in PC that instantly comes to mind.

I don't think we know all of the variables in this equation and this does sound like a "try this before we modify anything permanently on your boots" approach. I think this is more of a case of him working with the OP on finding the specific solution for OP's alignment needs in combination with a boot that isn't exactly a blank canvas to work with.

[SoVT Joey]

And Brent’s shop originally told OP to cant 5 degrees on each boot. Then backed off to 1.5 degrees on each boot after op was told that’s fucking insane (by us morons from the internet, that’s saying something) and find a new fitter. He returned to the same shop and Brent reduced 3.5 degrees. I hope your buddy Brent shit canned the first idiot that said 5 degrees. Good thing op didn’t listen and let them grind his soles. Brent would of been supplying new boots to the OP


also there are tons of people that are professionals that turn out to be idiots.

[onenerdykid]

And Brent’s shop originally told OP to cant 5 degrees on each boot. Then backed off to 1.5 degrees on each boot after op was told that’s fucking insane (by us morons from the internet, that’s saying something) and find a new fitter. He returned to the same shop and Brent reduced 3.5 degrees. I hope your buddy Brent shit canned the first idiot that said 5 degrees. Good thing op didn’t listen and let them grind his soles. Brent would of been supplying new boots to the OP


also there are tons of people that are professionals that turn out to be idiots.

I don't think I would put Brent into the category of "professionals that turn out to be idiots"- he's a CPed, been doing stance alignment for a long time and the folks at Cantology think pretty highly of him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFSNeS5QOnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cac1yTaqAfA

The reality here is that not one of us have done a canting assessment on the OP. We don't know what is really going on with his alignment, we're just blindly saying things based on our previous & unrelated experiences.

Do shops make mistakes? Of course, and even the best gurus can get it wrong from time to time. Does saying that someone needs 5° of sole canting sound insane? Certainly sounds odd to me. But again, no one here as assessed the OP and if I had to consistently bet money that Brent is doing a good job, I would walk away with more money than I lost.

[Yukonrider]

I don’t understand how this is so hard.

Part of the issue is there are no resorts open to test this all out on. I will be doing the credit card thing you recomended once a groomer opens up and I have a suitable testing area. Until then all there is to do is talk about it on the internet.


I also want to say I am NOT trying to throw shade on Brent or his operation. I am simply asking the opinion of others before making irreversible or seriously labor intensive changes to MY gear, and I am glad I did. I also am happy with how Brent handled it when I said "I'm not sure this is correct".

[XavierD]

Internet boot advice has gone the full circle from telling people to “see a boot fitter, we can’t assess online” to “you’re boot fitter is a fucking moron, trust us, who have never seen your situation in person.”

FWIW, homies boots have tech inserts and a unique lug situation with could get in the way of cant adjustment, especially >1* and maybe Brent is trying to find a solution around that particular set of issues.

[whereiscarlos]

All it takes to get this 3.5 degree discrepancy is ~12mm of total boot slop if measured at the top of the cuff. That’s 6mm on each side. If those massive shims are welcomed by OP to take up space then it’s not that hard to believe a loose upper cuff fit is (at least part of) the reason for the 3.5 degree discrepancy. OP also isn’t running stupid stiff race boots/liners so the squish could also account for part of the problem.

Agree that on snow testing and everyone here recommending a second opinion was the right call, but accusing the fitter of being incompetent and/or unprofessional is a bit premature given the circumstances

[anotherVTskibum]

Thank you all for the input here. I have an update

Went back to the original shop and got re-meausred. This time came out at a 1.5 degree on both sides, so the fitter gave me a shim to put between my shell and liner which acts as a 1 degree cant of sorts. Told me to go ski some laps with the shim, and some without and see which feels better. If it feels good we will try a bigger shim, and eventually cant either the skis or the boots.

If at all possible, get video. If your alignment is off and that's the way you're used to it, fixing it often feels odd and wrong even though it's actually an improvement.

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