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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    These Blizzards be backed by straight titanium
    Attachment 435000
    More like backed by straight marketing bullshit. Blizzard, VŲlkl, Atomic and others have periodically used the word "Titanium" in marketing copy or something like "Powered by Titanium", all falsely.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    More like backed by straight marketing bullshit. Blizzard, VŲlkl, Atomic and others have periodically used the word "Titanium" in marketing copy or something like "Powered by Titanium", all falsely.
    Yeah, it's one thing in marketing literature. People that write that shit don't know the difference between damping vs. dampening. Printed on the topsheet takes it up a notch!

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Yeah, I get that itís not a lot, and Iím not a materials expert so canít tell you what the specific benefit of having Ti in there is, but some alloys just have very small amounts of various elements, including Ti.

    AL-7068 for example:

    Attachment 434604

    My only point is that if someoneís thinking they only put a tiny bit of Ti in there just so they could call it Titanal, thatís probably not the case.
    Titanium gets used in wrought aluminum alloys (i.e. 4 digit alloys like 6xxx, 7xxx, etc. type series including classics like 6061, 7075) mainly for grain refinement during the casting process. Ti forms intermetallic TiAl3 solid particles in the molten aluminum which Al grains nucleate off of. Usually they also add grain refiner rod containing TiB particles, which nucleate grains as well. More grains nucleating = smaller grains = more grain boundaries = stronger material.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anachronist View Post
    Titanium gets used in wrought aluminum alloys (i.e. 4 digit alloys like 6xxx, 7xxx, etc. type series including classics like 6061, 7075) mainly for grain refinement during the casting process. Ti forms intermetallic TiAl3 solid particles in the molten aluminum which Al grains nucleate off of. Usually they also add grain refiner rod containing TiB particles, which nucleate grains as well. More grains nucleating = smaller grains = more grain boundaries = stronger material.
    Now there's an informed response. Thanks. Hats off to you, sir!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anachronist View Post
    Titanium gets used in wrought aluminum alloys (i.e. 4 digit alloys like 6xxx, 7xxx, etc. type series including classics like 6061, 7075) mainly for grain refinement during the casting process. Ti forms intermetallic TiAl3 solid particles in the molten aluminum which Al grains nucleate off of. Usually they also add grain refiner rod containing TiB particles, which nucleate grains as well. More grains nucleating = smaller grains = more grain boundaries = stronger material.
    Thanks.

    Grain refinement is definitely something I heard about in materials class and then never spoke of again in the following two decades.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anachronist View Post
    Titanium gets used in wrought aluminum alloys (i.e. 4 digit alloys like 6xxx, 7xxx, etc. type series including classics like 6061, 7075) mainly for grain refinement during the casting process. Ti forms intermetallic TiAl3 solid particles in the molten aluminum which Al grains nucleate off of. Usually they also add grain refiner rod containing TiB particles, which nucleate grains as well. More grains nucleating = smaller grains = more grain boundaries = stronger material.
    Wow, good stuff Anachronist, thank you!

  7. #82
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    Love a good metallurgy mic drop.

  8. #83
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    I can see it now on Blizzard's website--REFINED GRAIN PLUS FLIPCORE FOR THE HIGHEST PERFORMANCE SKIS WE'VE EVER MADE

  9. #84
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    As I understand it from hanging around a ski building shop, titanium has many compelling characteristics, but due to some chemistry stuff forms a poor bond with epoxies. Aluminum is more porous and bonds well. I like skis with metal; one of my favorites of all time was full rocker 184 Katanas. Thatís all i can contribute. Happy thanksgiving!


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    Gravity always wins...

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    More like backed by straight marketing bullshit. Blizzard, VŲlkl, Atomic and others have periodically used the word "Titanium" in marketing copy or something like "Powered by Titanium", all falsely.
    Some of the worst marketing BS is the "graphene" label on some Head skis.

    As someone who did research on graphene, I can guarantee you it is not making your skis better.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  11. #86
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    I wasnít inferring that that the metallurgy would be effected by marketing. But they donít admit that itís basically an aluminum sheet. They arenít going to call it Molynal or Magnanal, Chrominal?

    Nope, go with unobtanium.

  12. #87
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    did some mfger make an aluminium ski say back in the 80's as in the whole fucking ski top sheets and all was aluminium ?

    some guys i worked with used to talk about these mythical skis that someone had bought from a whistler ski patrol

    real or bogus ?
    Last edited by XXX-er; 11-25-2022 at 09:46 AM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    did some mfger make an aluminium ski say back in the 80's as in the whole fucking ski top sheets and all was aluminium ?

    some guys i worked with used to talk about these mythical skis that someone had bought from a whistler ski patrol

    real or bogus ?
    Real.

    Canít remember who though, Volant maybe?

    Someone else made an all carbon ski, super stiff and lightÖ Goode maybe?

  14. #89
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    I think Goode made teh carbonz, but if I'm not mistaken, head made a mostly metal ski way, way back.

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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    did some mfger make an aluminium ski say back in the 80's as in the whole fucking ski top sheets and all was aluminium ?

    some guys i worked with used to talk about these mythical skis that someone had bought from a whistler ski patrol

    real or bogus ?
    Aluflex?
    Aluflex skis had/have metal topsheets. Still made today @ shapersalpins.com.https://shapersalpins.com/produit/sk...-fiberflex-gp/
    Truflex was the 1st mass produced aluminum ski. With no damping, it proved to be nearly unskiable in hard snow conditions. The company that built it also invented snowmaking and abandoned ski making and licensed the design to Adopt Attenhofer. Attenhofer had the ski built in France. After solving ski ability problems(addition of wood core) the ski became known as Aluflex. Aluflex merged w/Starflex and became Dynastar.

  16. #91
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    This research study seems to corroborate what I've been saying. Titanal, by itself on skis w/ similar mass and stiffness,has 0 affect on damping

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...celerance_Maps

  17. #92
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    Not an engineer, but I would think having different materials would result in different vibration resonances and thus result in a damping effect. So by extension adding aluminum would cause greater damping than a similar ski without

  18. #93
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    Not according to that testing.
    Of course lab testing is probably a little flawed in terms of what's happening in real time on snow but.....

  19. #94
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    I think adding titanal allows additional mass and stiffness without changing the profile too much. Damping is largely created by fiberglass and/or rubber.

    Iíve used a really damp ski with no metal, Rocker2 100 but they lacked the stiffness and mass of a metal laminate ski to plow through variable snow


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  20. #95
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    Boneshakers are a pretty damp ride. Pretty stiff too. They crush the variables! 0 metal!
    I'm not quite as big as you, but my brother skis them too. You've got a few lbs on him, but he's 6'6" 220. We both DD'd those skis for yrs!

  21. #96
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    Metal skis - inherently demanding?

    Itís subjective of course, but I didnít think that the Boneshakers were that stiff. Heavy for sure and not noodles by any means

    I will say that ski seemed under rated


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  22. #97
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    We'll, I did say pretty stiff. And they do crush variable
    Also, the testing in that research study was for skis with similar mass and stiffness

  23. #98
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    A good friend still uses that ski, loves it. Iíd definitely ski a pair in good shape


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  24. #99
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    It's my favorite ski I've ever been on.

    So, I whoarded some

  25. #100
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    They were talking about some ski that this patroler brings into the bar at whistler probably late 70's back when there was no whistler, fueled by bad canadian draft beer he puts them on a chair so he can jump on the tips which somehow impresses my buddy so he buys them, and i have always wondered about that storey

    i do remember a GS design of the Volants being a pretty good skiing ski except i think they all delaminated eventualy
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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