Release the Kraken???

[grizzle6]

The picture is mediocre at best, move along. It’s so fucking busy, can’t look at without getting nauseous. It’s also been done so many times before. OP needs to try harder. He’s a good photographer, he’s not an artist though. That’s like Holiday Inn level work. Good on him for making a living though, I guess.

"A" for effort there chieftain. Wish I could say I get all hot and bothered when I see "critiques" like this, but when was the last time you saw a chef take cooking advice from dude that only owns a microwave???

PS--I bet your kindergarten self portraits looked like ass. Kind regards.

[buttahflake]

Typical response from an ‘artist’. You ain’t a chef, guy. You’re a line cook.
Take one

[grizzle6]

Typical response from an ‘artist’. You ain’t a chef, guy. You’re a line cook.
Take one

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Obviously creators should be paid for their work. The OP also asked for two nights at a hotel which where the cheapest room currently is 700+ per night, if you can get one. Next several weekends are booked solid.

They inquired, a price was given, they said no. That is how business works.

I'm struggling to be outraged that a business didn't want to give $1400+ in value for a social media photo. They didn't steal the photo, they didn't get all righteous about exposure or anything. They just walked away. The Wort might have been a bit presumptuous about asking for the discount they did, but that isn't illegal or unethical.

Photogs should be paid for their work, but they can't get pissed when people choose not to purchase at the price given or if someone asks for a discount. Unfortunately, photography in the Tetons is a very saturated market, so while OP's work may be worth that cost, that doesn't mean the Wort is required to pay it.

This post is a waste of bandwidth

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The picture is mediocre at best, move along. It’s so fucking busy, can’t look at without getting nauseous. It’s also been done so many times before. OP needs to try harder. He’s a good photographer, he’s not an artist though. That’s like Holiday Inn level work. Good on him for making a living though, I guess.

This is so true, your selfie in the go forth and ride…. thread is so creative and artistic


Tool

[riser4]

This post is a waste of bandwidth

So is quoting it and replying to it. He's on ignore for a reason. And my reply to you is a waste of bandwidth. I get that.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Hey little buddy!
Attachment 427427

Really? Another selfie?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So is quoting it and replying to it. He's on ignore for a reason. And my reply to you is a waste of bandwidth. I get that.

No one is on ignore over here

[MontuckyFried]

Obviously creators should be paid for their work. The OP also asked for two nights at a hotel which where the cheapest room currently is 700+ per night, if you can get one. Next several weekends are booked solid.

They inquired, a price was given, they said no. That is how business works.

I'm struggling to be outraged that a business didn't want to give $1400+ in value for a social media photo. They didn't steal the photo, they didn't get all righteous about exposure or anything. They just walked away. The Wort might have been a bit presumptuous about asking for the discount they did, but that isn't illegal or unethical.

Photogs should be paid for their work, but they can't get pissed when people choose not to purchase at the price given or if someone asks for a discount. Unfortunately, photography in the Tetons is a very saturated market, so while OP's work may be worth that cost, that doesn't mean the Wort is required to pay it.

There's nothing wrong with asking in either direction.

Upon more reflection, I retract this response. There IS something wrong with it. Now, it's one thing if you're asking a company or professional for a freebie IF it's for a charitable event/fundraiser. OR if it's a buddy you know and you'd like to work out some kind of barter. That's sometimes ok. But to come out of the blue and approach somebody you don't even know for a freebie? In what world is that acceptable? I have never in my life sought out a professional or business I didn't know, of ANY kind, and not fully expected to pay their going rate. Even asking for a hookup is pretty tacky if you don't have some sort of an established relationship first. If you are a real friend, I will bend over backwards to take care of you. Happily! But if you're Joe Blow (working for a very wealthy person at that), then GTFO asking for a freebie. How about a kick to the nads instead? I'll give you that for free. Because that's what one deserves with that level of gall.

[nickwm21]

Obviously creators should be paid for their work. The OP also asked for two nights at a hotel which where the cheapest room currently is 700+ per night, if you can get one. Next several weekends are booked solid.

They inquired, a price was given, they said no. That is how business works.

I'm struggling to be outraged that a business didn't want to give $1400+ in value for a social media photo. They didn't steal the photo, they didn't get all righteous about exposure or anything. They just walked away. The Wort might have been a bit presumptuous about asking for the discount they did, but that isn't illegal or unethical.

Photogs should be paid for their work, but they can't get pissed when people choose not to purchase at the price given or if someone asks for a discount. Unfortunately, photography in the Tetons is a very saturated market, so while OP's work may be worth that cost, that doesn't mean the Wort is required to pay it.

This.

It’s also not just a $1400 rev hit to the hotel. There’s opportunity cost here as well. Taking dates that might otherwise go to someone staying 3, 4, 5 days… Taking a room from someone that might buy more food and bev on premises.


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[MontuckyFried]

This.

It’s also not just a $1400 rev hit to the hotel. There’s opportunity cost here as well. Taking dates that might otherwise go to someone staying 3, 4, 5 days… Taking a room from someone that might buy more food and bev on premises.

Don't want people to ask for free shit? Then don't ask THEM for free shit to start. They opened themselves up to that the second they asked for a professional's product for free. The time and resources to fully produce that photo from A to Z to begin with did not come without significant cost either, ya know.

[Danno]

Upon more reflection, I retract this response. There IS something wrong with it. Now, it's one thing if you're asking a company or professional for a freebie IF it's for a charitable event/fundraiser. OR if it's a buddy you know and you'd like to work out some kind of barter. That's sometimes ok. But to come out of the blue and approach somebody you don't even know for a freebie? In what world is that acceptable? I have never in my life sought out a professional or business I didn't know, of ANY kind, and not fully expected to pay their going rate. Even asking for a hookup is pretty tacky if you don't have some sort of an established relationship first. If you are a real friend, I will bend over backwards to take care of you. Happily! But if you're Joe Blow (working for a very wealthy person at that), then GTFO asking for a freebie. How about a kick to the nads instead? I'll give you that for free. Because that's what one deserves with that level of gall.

Exactly. It's not appropriate to ask a professional to do professional work for free if you're not a non-profit/doing a fundraiser. The appropriate way to approach him is "hey, we want to use your photo on our social media, how much?" If you really think the exposure for him is that big of a deal, you bring that up in your ask, or in your counter-offer.

[Danno]

Grizzle didn't ask for "free shit" either, he asked for payment in barter.

[Timberridge]

Maybe they don't feel the picture was worth $1400?

I think it's nice, but Butters doesn't like the picture so there could two different valuations on the picture.

Did you ask if they'd give you a dinner for 2 and a complimentary cocktail instead?

[AdironRider]

I agree the photog should be paid, but I also think that the same photog asking for 1400 bucks (or the equivalent) in return is a big enough number that getting all pissed when they say 'no thanks' seems a bit over the top. The Wort probably should have shut up after the OP sent the angry wall of text but blowing up the low level employee asking to use a photo on social media as if that is going to change the entire photo industry is a bit much.

[dunfree]

This.

It’s also not just a $1400 rev hit to the hotel. There’s opportunity cost here as well. Taking dates that might otherwise go to someone staying 3, 4, 5 days… Taking a room from someone that might buy more food and bev on premises.


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You can get a room for <$250 a night. $750 is peak. Do you think the credit would be valid for peak?

So, let’s say it’s $500. Not $1400.


Beatahflake - found your balls yet, you inbred New England troglodyte?

[The AD]

First of all it's not $1400. Those are high season rates. The hotel is more like $400-$500/night over the winter. And isn't this typically how negotiation works? They gave an outrageously low offer and he countered with one that was probably too high. Often the next step is something in the middle. "Kind regards" is tantamount to a slap in the face: we like your work, but only if it's free.

[MontuckyFried]

The appropriate way to approach him is "hey, we want to use your photo on our social media, how much?" If you really think the exposure for him is that big of a deal, you bring that up in your ask, or in your counter-offer.

Grizzle didn't ask for "free shit" either, he asked for payment in barter.

True, true... on both posts. He countered with a barter instead of straight up free like the Wort did to begin with. They absolutely should have started with inquiring about price first!!!

Maybe they don't feel the picture was worth $1400?

The problem with this take is that they never asked what the price was to begin with! They started asking to use it for free right off the bat.

What they did is the equivalent of those annoying pricks that plague Craigslist and FB Marketplace that come out the gate with nonsense offers the first few minutes you list a car.
Seller: "For Sale - 2020 Car - $30K - Like New"
Would-be buyer: "I'll take it off your hands. Isn't worth anything anyway. Will give you a shoutout on social media tho!"
Seller: "How about a trade?"
Would-be buyer: "No. -kind regards."

Except in this case, it's like the would-be buyer is backed by Daddy Warbucks. He HAS the funds to pay people what their stuff is worth. Not some CL rando spamming out of a meth'd out trailer house. That makes this case even more egregious.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It also doesn’t cost the Wort $700 or whatever they charge customer for a room. It’ll be a right off and it won’t cost them anything

[MontuckyFried]

"Kind regards" is tantamount to a slap in the face: we like your work, but only if it's free.

EXACTLY! Having been on the receiving of the short bullshit responses punctuated by the "kind regards" numerous times is why OP's story made my blood boil all over again.

[AdironRider]

700 was the rate the hotel quoted me on their website for any of the next three weekends. Most hotels are dynamic pricing so that surely does change. But that is just the example.

People walk away from negotiations all the time. Mind you, this is a photo taken hundreds of times a day, literally from a roadside pullout, in 4k on a tourists phone. This one is a bit better than that but none the less, the market saturation of this scene is sky fucking high and needless to say, that lowers its value a bit.

[Timberridge]

The composition of said photo has been called into question in this thread as well.

[nickwm21]

No one is saying OP should not be compensated.

No one is saying the marketing intern at The Wort wasn’t a douche.

….There are just a lot of better ways OP could have handled this….

This is a prime example of how internet culture ruins things. A face to face conversation or a phone call would have had a completely different outcome.


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[dunfree]

“OP should have spent more effort with a lazy douchebag social media manager” is a take alright

[MontuckyFried]

700 was the rate the hotel quoted me on their website for any of the next three weekends. Most hotels are dynamic pricing so that surely does change. But that is just the example.

People walk away from negotiations all the time. Mind you, this is a photo taken hundreds of times a day, literally from a roadside pullout, in 4k on a tourists phone. This one is a bit better than that but none the less, the market saturation of this scene is sky fucking high and needless to say, that lowers its value a bit.

Dude. Haven't you been in some of the galleries in Jackson Hole?! Sure, scenery prints are abundant, but those galleries aren't exactly giving them away for free either! Would LOVE for the Wort to hit up Tom Mangelsen there in Jackson and see if he'd give them his photos in exchange for some rad "credit."