Release the Kraken???

[Percy Rideout]

I learned today that your average TGR poster hasn't ever negotiated a contract.

[Timberridge]

This is how wars start.

[DBdude]

This place never disappoints. Let’s get a few things straight here:

1. I miss the absolute shit show that is the TGR message boards. I love it all. The love. The hate. The asshattery. This is a special corner of the interwebz. And yes, I do mean “short bus” special.

2. If you said it’s their prerogative to say thx but no thx to my offer, you’re spot on. I really don’t take issue with their hard pass on my offer. I face rejection every day. Its a free market—people can, should and do choose to either pay the premium I charge for my work…or not.

3. If you said they just happened to be the unlucky poo brown ticket holder in the long line of “almost but weren’t” clients to hold their hand out for a freebie…welp…you’re spot on. Ha. (But still, see line item 4 for more clarity. Haha. )

4. If you laughed out loud at their “I don’t have time” response, then that makes two of us. I’m never too butthurt to appreciate a good middle finger to Planet Earth when I see one. That was next level.

5. I offered to deal in trade because it is both cheaper to them and more valuable to me right now given a pending visit to JH to shoot fall color. Sure, cash is king but VALUE is a very close second. And depending on the day, week, month or year…that value can manifest itself in any number of payment methods that seems to satisfy both parties. In all honesty, most of the time clients like this would gladly choose trade over cash.

6. To the fellow keyboard warrior that thinks I’m doing more harm than good with all this: I didn’t come to the ring with some dainty ass driving gloves. I brought the Everlasts and I’m good and ready to go the full 12. Why? Because this BS philosophy of photo credit as compensation is straight poison. And it won’t change until we creatives shout instead of whisper. Hell, it likely won’t even change then—but at least I can sleep at night.

I am hardly worried about my reputation at this point. I have a healthy Rolodex of clients who value my vision and are willing to compensate me accordingly. I live an exceptional life, have been blessed with an amazing family and I’ve seen more beauty and wonder through my lens than I deserve (but I’ll take it). I’ve been incredibly fortunate to make my living as a professional photographer for nearly 15 years thx in large part to an unfailing commitment on my end to saying no to bad business.

If calling out an establishment that is more than capable of paying a decent rate for desired goods is wrong, then I don’t care to be right.

Oh, and of course—kind regards. Ha. That’s gonna be my new signature. If you made it this far, I owe you a print…

Hugs.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

you owe me a print!

you are spot on about the exposure - your career is past that

rock on

[MontuckyFried]

A face to face conversation or a phone call would have had a completely different outcome.

Oh, it starts out friendlier for sure! Outcome is often the same, though. I had countless times where people from different prominent local organizations would come to me in person asking for free stuff, again in exchange for minor credit or 'exposure.' I'd tell them I'd consider it and upon coming up with a reasonable counter-proposal, even as simple as a more prominent crediting (which is free for them), would get the same rejection followed by "kind regards."

[AdironRider]

Dude. Haven't you been in some of the galleries in Jackson Hole?! Sure, scenery prints are abundant, but those galleries aren't exactly giving them away for free either! Would LOVE for the Wort to hit up Tom Mangelsen there in Jackson and see if he'd give them his photos in exchange for some rad "credit."

This is kind of my point in a sense. This wasn’t Mangelsen, and there are thousands of people in Jackson that want to be the next one that put out scenes like this up for exposure.

Mangelsen probably did once or twice himself before he cornered the airport duty free landscape market.

[DBdude]

The picture is mediocre at best, move along. It’s so fucking busy, can’t look at without getting nauseous. It’s also been done so many times before. OP needs to try harder. He’s a good photographer, he’s not an artist though. That’s like Holiday Inn level work. Good on him for making a living though, I guess.

hahahahahahahaha

go lift something heavy

douche

[DBdude]

Maybe they don't feel the picture was worth $1400?

I think it's nice, but Butters doesn't like the picture so there could two different valuations on the picture.

Did you ask if they'd give you a dinner for 2 and a complimentary cocktail instead?

the true cost to hotel is not 1400 - 1400 would be revenue

[The AD]

….There are just a lot of better ways OP could have handled this….

This is a prime example of how internet culture ruins things. A face to face conversation or a phone call would have had a completely different outcome.

This is probably correct, but it cuts both ways. If we just take that singular exchange between grizzle6 and the hotel it looks like a severe overreaction by grizzle6, but I'm sure it reflects the kind of thing grizzle6 has to deal with all the time and he boiled over a bit. And your second point is probably part of this. Rather than a legit attempt to reach out for his business it's a very flip attempt to get something for free and should be beneath a legitimate place of business like The Wort.

[Danno]

There are better ways the OP could have handled it than an angry wall of text? No shit. Even the OP agreed.; he admitted he snapped because he was so annoyed with them asking to use it for free (and they were the proverbial straw).

The problem all lies with the hotel, because they didn't start asking how much he charges or start with an actual monetary offer. They started asking a professional for free work. Had they lowballed ("can we use your photo, we can pay you $25") or even a simple open ended offer of "we want to use your photo, how much would you charge?", none of this would have happened. Heck, they could have used the same logic of "you will get lots of great marketing exposure" as justification for their low offer.

And the notion that he asked for $1400 in return is silly. As has been noted, that is high season rates, but also that is the rate they charge to earn them profit, it is not their cost. They could certainly have accepted his 2 night counter but limited it to low season times, and if he stayed there on a night they were not fully booked, the only "loss" they incur is their cost (housekeeping and the like), not any lost profit. And they would write it off so the loss would be even lower.

[The Reverend Floater]

A few take aways from this gem of a thread:

1. A lot of dentists on here, as clearly many folks have no idea how a business operates.
2. A lot of dentists think photography has no costs associated to it, and thus should be given away.
3. 9/10 dentists wouldn't give away a new set of veneers in exchange for exposure.

[Timberridge]

Dentists have some of the worst artwork in their offices. Mine bought his at a Ramada Inn art sale, I think.

I'd like to hear how Butters would compose the picture differently.
Perhaps having a set of ripples in the water from a skipped stone?

[buttahflake]

It also doesn’t cost the Wort $700 or whatever they charge customer for a room. It’ll be a right off and it won’t cost them anything

It’s a ‘write-off’, dumbass. Your comprehension of the English language is at a sixth grade level. Do they actually let you look at patients charts and make decisions and whatnot? Yikes

Read a book

[m2711c]

more dry drunk anger… sad.

[subtle plague]

I like buttah's band

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ZoFbNGpBc

[nickwm21]

“OP should have spent more effort with a lazy douchebag social media manager” is a take alright

Well he did write a 5 paragraph diatribe response then post a thread here and on Reddit. So maybe use a fraction of that effort differently?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Buster Highmen]

Let he or she or it who has not overreacted on social media be the first to cast a 1000 word lecture on personal failures, seasoned with all the common epithets and worn out pejoratives.

[Timberridge]

Let he or she or it who has not overreacted on social media be the first to cast a 1000 word lecture on personal failures, seasoned with all the common epithets and worn out pejoratives.

Here's an idea--take Busters post above and turn the mountain photo into a motivational poster. $$$

[TahoeJ]

There are better ways the OP could have handled it than an angry wall of text? No shit. Even the OP agreed.; he admitted he snapped because he was so annoyed with them asking to use it for free (and they were the proverbial straw).

The problem all lies with the hotel, because they didn't start asking how much he charges or start with an actual monetary offer. They started asking a professional for free work. Had they lowballed ("can we use your photo, we can pay you $25") or even a simple open ended offer of "we want to use your photo, how much would you charge?", none of this would have happened. Heck, they could have used the same logic of "you will get lots of great marketing exposure" as justification for their low offer.

And the notion that he asked for $1400 in return is silly. As has been noted, that is high season rates, but also that is the rate they charge to earn them profit, it is not their cost. They could certainly have accepted his 2 night counter but limited it to low season times, and if he stayed there on a night they were not fully booked, the only "loss" they incur is their cost (housekeeping and the like), not any lost profit. And they would write it off so the loss would be even lower.

This on all accounts.

[frorider]

This thread reminds me of that blue vs white dress thing years ago. Just imagine if a treadmill were involved.

[subtle plague]

This thread reminds me of that blue vs white dress thing years ago. Just imagine if a treadmill were involved.

Buttahflake would take off regardless.

[Buster Highmen]

Here's an idea--take Busters post above and turn the mountain photo into a motivational poster. $$$

Are you intending to offer my art for someone else's (other than the lovely and beneficent Jones bros) profit?

Fie on thee.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s a ‘write-off’, dumbass. Your comprehension of the English language is at a sixth grade level. Do they actually let you look at patients charts and make decisions and whatnot? Yikes

Read a book

You’re right. It is write off. Mistakes happen, like when your mom decided not to abort you.

[BmillsSkier]

It looks like I've got some light reading to do here.

Miss a day, miss a lot.

[riser4]

You’re right. It is write off. Mistakes happen, like when your mom decided not to abort you.

There it is.

[BmillsSkier]

Buttah has really been busy this last week.

Maybe some tea would help to calm things down a bit?