Check Out Our Shop
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    15,941

    New Hampshire criminalizes being dumb-assed

    This kind of appeals to me, but I guess that could be a sign I’m a bad person.
    … Authorities, though, charged the two hikers with reckless conduct for being so ill-prepared for their adventure...

    “Conservation Officers learned from the two hikers they had no plan for a hike that day. They were not familiar with the area, did not stay on any trail, and did not have any equipment or even footwear for entering such a steep and dangerous location, much less ropes, harnesses, or climbing gear.”
    Unprepared New Hampshire Hikers Were Charged With a Crime After Rescue

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North,NorthEast
    Posts
    3,591
    $248 fine seems a bit weak though

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    between campus and church
    Posts
    10,010
    Ongoing discussion in ECRC thread.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    18,632

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Posts
    11,826
    I have a hard time criminalizing people who don't have the correct gear, cause that seems like a big slippery slope into some real legal gatekeeping people outdoors. Someone gets hurt and gets fined for not having a compass or "appropriate" footwear? I don't know about that.

    Going off trail, or into close areas, I guess I could see it, but even still, maybe more time and money on education, less on policing people

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    beaverhead county
    Posts
    4,731
    Make ‘em pay sar expeneses. Shit ain’t free.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    swing your fucking sword.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    35,624
    I was really hoping this was going to mean instant arrest for going the speed limit (or under) in the left lane.
    One can hope.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Keep Tacoma Feared
    Posts
    5,387
    Not really accurate to say New Hampshire "criminalizes" this conduct. New Hampshire has a Reckless Conduct statute on the books, as does every state. A prosecutor there decided to use that statute to charge these guys, and they decided to plead guilty rather than go to trial. This could happen in any state depending on who the prosecutor is.

    Personally, sounds like they had a very winnable jury trial as the prosecutor would have to prove their conduct endangered others. They were rescued by experienced rock climbers via rappel from above. How is that endangering these rock climbers when they do this stuff for fun?

    It's a very similar case as the snowboarders charged with kicking off an avy above the Eisenhower tunnel. Although, at least in that case there was a stronger argument they were endangering others.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Keep Tacoma Feared
    Posts
    5,387
    Upon closer review, they plead to infractions, not misdemeanor crimes. Infractions are like speeding or parking tickets. They don't go on your criminal record. Per Outside:

    The hikers, a 22-year-old from Lowell, Massachusetts and a 25-year-old from Windsor, New Hampshire, will each pay a $200 fine and a $48 penalty assessment after pleading their charges down from misdemeanors to violation-level offenses in the 2nd circuit court of Littleton, New Hampshire.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Inside the Circle
    Posts
    4,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    I have a hard time criminalizing people who don't have the correct gear, cause that seems like a big slippery slope into some real legal gatekeeping people outdoors. Someone gets hurt and gets fined for not having a compass or "appropriate" footwear? I don't know about that.

    Going off trail, or into close areas, I guess I could see it, but even still, maybe more time and money on education, less on policing people
    These dumbasses wouldn't respond to education. Climbing cliffs with no gear whatsoever? Part of me wishes they didn't have cell service but in the end, I'm glad they're alive. If you don't live here, you can't imagine how many hipsters from Boston lose their shit in the "high alpine". There's an entire book cataloging everybody who has died on Mount Washington. I just shook my head as I read it. Another one bit the dust this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I was really hoping this was going to mean instant arrest for going the speed limit (or under) in the left lane.
    One can hope.
    Thankfully, NH is pretty good on that issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Upon closer review, they plead to infractions, not misdemeanor crimes. Infractions are like speeding or parking tickets. They don't go on your criminal record. Per Outside:

    The hikers, a 22-year-old from Lowell, Massachusetts and a 25-year-old from Windsor, New Hampshire, will each pay a $200 fine and a $48 penalty assessment after pleading their charges down from misdemeanors to violation-level offenses in the 2nd circuit court of Littleton, New Hampshire.
    This is what I was thinking also. Thanks for the clarity. Basically, they got a ticket...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Posts
    11,826
    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post
    These dumbasses wouldn't respond to education. Climbing cliffs with no gear whatsoever? Part of me wishes they didn't have cell service but in the end, I'm glad they're alive. If you don't live here, you can't imagine how many hipsters from Boston lose their shit in the "high alpine". There's an entire book cataloging everybody who has died on Mount Washington. I just shook my head as I read it. Another one bit the dust this year.
    I mean, I definitely get it. Ticketing people who go off trail, into closed areas, etc, I understand. I don't like the part where they cited "inadequate footwear" and other gear-related things. Not necessarily in this instance, but I just see stuff like that getting abused to keep lower-income/minority people out of the outdoors if we are policing that stuff.

    I'm totally willing to say that this scenario is more extreme than that, and if they are only fined for other things, I think that's fair. I just don't want actual laws to be another barrier to people getting out there, ya know?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Inside the Circle
    Posts
    4,217
    ^Typical prosecutor actions...they wouldn't try a case based on inadequate footwear but if they have something more solid, they pile on everything that is in the statute.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Planning an exit
    Posts
    5,942
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Personally, sounds like they had a very winnable jury trial as the prosecutor would have to prove their conduct endangered others. They were rescued by experienced rock climbers via rappel from above. How is that endangering these rock climbers when they do this stuff for fun?
    Because most climbing accidents happen while rappelling.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Inside the Circle
    Posts
    4,217
    ^ and they didn't get to choose when and where they were rappelling....

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    826
    Leave it to Conservative Heaven of new hampsha to grab $$ from the working poor for anykind of humanly-possible mishap, including having to relieve onesself into one's own bottled water container one has packed.
    Last edited by steved; 11-25-2023 at 11:10 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In your Dreams
    Posts
    2,184
    ^^^ Cool post.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    826
    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    $248 fine seems a bit weak though
    Agree, if they WERE interested in enforcing anykind of society-responsible behavior, many fines would be higher. All they wanna do is get into one's wallet and bank account.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    8,456
    Idk, but when the guy went for a walk and wandered onto a rogue mtn bike trail, got lost and then died, it created a bit of a shitshow at the state level. The new rail trail they're putting in abuts our illegal trails and they purposely blocked every entry point from the rail trail. Seems like the state is randomly trying to address this wherever possible. "Come visit safe NH and don't die so you can spend your money on our state run liquor stores and drink yourself to death in Massachusetts!"

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,331
    How about no rescue?

    Seems harsh. At first.

    But buy insurance if you want to do stupid shit and win stupid prizes.
    I’ve just decided to be a middle aged somewhat depressed somewhat anxious fucktard until the end.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    11,039
    I don't think criminal charges should be filed whether an infraction or misdemeanor. But I do think it would be great if the bill for the rescue was sent to the rescued.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Well, I'm not allowed to delete this post, but, I can say, go fuck yourselves, everybody!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •