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Thread: Water.....

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiBall View Post
    It sure helps in the short term. It’s nice not being inundated with smoke this summer. But the groundwater and aquifers are so depleted, and the actual amount of water to be replenished would need some Noah’s Ark shit to help in one year. We need a sustained shift to bigger snowpack and regular monsoons for the next decade to start to get some real bankable water I would guess.
    So yeah, we’ll be fine.
    Ya never know - we (lower Columbia Basin) were in a severe drought, more than 8 inches behind in rainfall, but are now back to normal. Of course it brought a bit a flooding with it as we rec'd more than 3x the normal amount of rain in a one month but hey... we're not in a drought anymore.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


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  2. #27
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    The book “Where the Water Goes” by David Owen is an interesting read. He follows the CO River from headwaters to where it goes dry. Talks about the complexity of water rights, consumptive vs nonconsumptive uses, and previous agreements. I found it a good primer for this whole situation and recommended it to those who are interested in learning more.


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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    Another culprit behind the megadrought: Big Ag. In the West, thirsty farms abound. Agriculture makes up 80% of California’s water use, most of it industrial. We see this pattern in other Western states like New Mexico and Oregon, too.

    The West’s agriculture industries are so thirsty in part due to water-intensive crops that aren’t suited for our dry climate. Of California’s 80% freshwater used for agriculture, 20% goes to water-intensive tree nuts. 60% of these crops, like almonds and pistachios, are exported abroad.

    Similarly, 16% of that agricultural water goes to growing alfalfa — another water intensive crop, some of which is exported. In New Mexico, it’s the same story: Big Ag uses scarce water resources to grow alfalfa for hay, 30% of which it exports.

    Much of what Big Ag doesn’t export, it uses to support factory farms. These operations also suck up large amounts of water while causing massive amounts of water and air pollution.

    In Oregon, there are 11 mega-dairies with over 2500 cows each. Combined, they consume 8.2 million gallons of water a day just for drinking and washing. This doesn’t even include the water used to grow feed. All this water could meet the average daily indoor water needs of over 124,000 Oregonians.

    In New Mexico, mega-dairies (500 head or more) use over 32 million gallons a day. And in California, mega-dairies use a whopping 142 million gallons a day. That’s enough water for every resident of San Diego and San Jose combined.

    At the same time, factory farms produce huge amounts of waste, polluting air and water and contributing to climate change. Those 11 Oregon mega-dairies produce emissions equivalent to that of 318,000 passenger vehicles.
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    my lay-person first take is no, we need to change the way we grow things.

  5. #30
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    Michael Pollan and a bunch of others say yes

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    Here in New England, we have plenty of water (most of the time) but small and medium farms are closing down at crazy rates due to the inability to make $. Even the large operations (300+ head) are struggling to some extent. The farmer that hays the fields in my neighborhood is retiring next year and we are having a hard time finding someone to replace him. I foresee a lot of time on the brush mower next year to keep some of the land open.
    I realize the length of growing season (4.5 months in NE vs almost year round in the SW) is why irrigating the dry SW has been the trend. But as we are seeing, that trend is not sustainable and maybe some of that ag will come back to the northeast.
    Aim for the chopping block. If you aim for the wood, you will have nothing. Aim past the wood, aim through the wood.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    I believe so. I'm a big believer in buying local as much as possible. Local meat, eggs, dairy, produce, honey, and more. Much lower overall personal footprint. Keeps all the microfarms in business, and it's awesome knowing your food sources. Organic and far more sustainable in my opinion. We have literally met the happy cows from whom we get our milk from and even the ones we've gotten our meat from. We're fortunate in that we have a fantastic local farming co-op we can participate in to score all sorts of stuff easily. Many places do too though. You just have to actually put in SOME minimal level of effort to source your food.

    Oh yeah. And screw California nut farming. SO asinine. And then they guilt the plebes in LA like THEY'RE the problem.

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I believe so. I'm a big believer in buying local as much as possible.
    So the next vehicle will be domestic brand?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Then you have the politicians that need to figure out if the dress code is Wranglers, Carhartt's or Prana.
    Just didn't want this gem to go unnoticed.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    telling people to eat less bovine products isn’t popular. And let’s not pretend eating local is more efficient, much less that people here actually eat local all year round without compromises (unless you live in the tropics, or somewhere with unsustainable water usage)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we reproduce?
    FFY

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by From_the_NEK View Post
    Here in New England, we have plenty of water (most of the time) but small and medium farms are closing down at crazy rates due to the inability to make $. Even the large operations (300+ head) are struggling to some extent. The farmer that hays the fields in my neighborhood is retiring next year and we are having a hard time finding someone to replace him. I foresee a lot of time on the brush mower next year to keep some of the land open.
    I realize the length of growing season (4.5 months in NE vs almost year round in the SW) is why irrigating the dry SW has been the trend. But as we are seeing, that trend is not sustainable and maybe some of that ag will come back to the northeast.
    We are dry this year. My lawn is California golden brown. At least I'm not burning gas cutting the stupid thing.

  13. #38
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    Thinking more about this and it seems we need to change the way we live.

    Travel - airplanes, hotels, cruise ships and all the associated cleaning.

    Dining out.

    Sporting events

    Elective surgeries and all the sterilization they required.

    Health clubs instead of just jogging.

    Showering multiple times a day everyday.

    Washing our cars. Washing street signs. Watering flowers to beautify downtown areas.

    Washing clothes, house exteriors, windows etc etc.

    Our society is hung up on things being their whitest and brightest. From the actually washing to the products that make it happen (and making their packaging) there is a lot of water usage going on everywhere.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  14. #39
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    Y'all are forgetting about the ginormous gorilla in the room: HOME AQUARIA!!!!!!

    I, for one, would be perfectly happy eating goat meat.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB View Post
    Y'all are forgetting about the ginormous gorilla in the room: HOME AQUARIA!!!!!!

    I, for one, would be perfectly happy eating goat meat.
    Mmm... goat vindaloo...

  16. #41
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    Horse is tasty too

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Thinking more about this and it seems we need to change the way we live.

    Travel - airplanes, hotels, cruise ships and all the associated cleaning.

    Dining out.

    Sporting events

    Elective surgeries and all the sterilization they required.

    Health clubs instead of just jogging.

    Showering multiple times a day everyday.

    Washing our cars. Washing street signs. Watering flowers to beautify downtown areas.

    Washing clothes, house exteriors, windows etc etc.

    Our society is hung up on things being their whitest and brightest. From the actually washing to the products that make it happen (and making their packaging) there is a lot of water usage going on everywhere.
    You need to change your focus to consumptive uses. For example, washing clothes and showering frequently costs energy, and reducing the frequency of those saves energy. So to the extent energy usage is a problem and drives certain strategies that impact water supply, sure, reduce that. But there is almost no consumptive use of water in washing clothes or showering.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    Is the current monsoon season going to make any real difference?

    The Times seems to think y'all are gonna be under water any minute btw.
    Had lunch with a vendor yesterday that spent 19 years in Phoenix. He's been in Boise the past 10 though. Says that the big cities in AZ and even in Las Vegas don't have the infrastructure to deal with the monsoon rains. Maybe some of those billions that Kyrsten Sinema got for her state in that bill just signed by Biden will get them the funds to address some of those issues.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Had lunch with a vendor yesterday that spent 19 years in Phoenix. He's been in Boise the past 10 though. Says that the big cities in AZ and even in Las Vegas don't have the infrastructure to deal with the monsoon rains. Maybe some of those billions that Kyrsten Sinema got for her state in that bill just signed by Biden will get them the funds to address some of those issues.
    despite its reputation for extravagance, Las Vegas has a relatively progressive water use policy in place now

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I believe so. I'm a big believer in buying local as much as possible. Local meat, eggs, dairy, produce, honey, and more. Much lower overall personal footprint. Keeps all the microfarms in business, and it's awesome knowing your food sources. Organic and far more sustainable in my opinion. We have literally met the happy cows from whom we get our milk from and even the ones we've gotten our meat from. We're fortunate in that we have a fantastic local farming co-op we can participate in to score all sorts of stuff easily. Many places do too though. You just have to actually put in SOME minimal level of effort to source your food.

    Oh yeah. And screw California nut farming. SO asinine. And then they guilt the plebes in LA like THEY'RE the problem.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Your answer is talking about how we grow it (locally where it might be better suited), not what you eat (things that require excess water and energy), for the most part.

  21. #46
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    It may give everyone a good feeling to cut back on in-home water use and not wash their car much, but IMO we need to wrangle in bigger usage personally, which is still a tiny bit compared to large companies. Saving a few gallons at home and not going to a car wash isn't going to help. For one, car washes are very efficient with the water usage and recycling. And I should be taking more showers IMO, not less. I stink.

    I've been starting to nerd out our home water use this year. From what I can guess, we use about 5000 gallons in-house a month. We use 35-40,000 gallons June-August each MONTH watering our lawns and garden. Kinda eye-popping, but our water bill is never more than $120 here in SLC so I never really cared or knew what we were doing. We have cut way back this summer on watering to see what's realistic to keep a semi-green lawn, and I'm figuring out a 2500 gallon rain water supply for our backyard. At first I thought this was shitload of water to have - now I realize it's not much, ha.

    Whenever the hard cuts to water come to SLC, or if they ever raise our water rates a ton, I'll be ready I guess. We are ripping out some lawn this fall as yeah I'm part of the problem, but I'm a tiny consumer compared to all the massive corps and their campuses of green lawns around here. They need to step up, and some locally are.

    As for ag use, western farmers know more about saving water than any of us douchebags.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Thinking more about this and it seems we need to change the way we live.

    Travel - airplanes, hotels, cruise ships and all the associated cleaning.

    Dining out.

    Sporting events

    Elective surgeries and all the sterilization they required.

    Health clubs instead of just jogging.

    Showering multiple times a day everyday.

    Washing our cars. Washing street signs. Watering flowers to beautify downtown areas.

    Washing clothes, house exteriors, windows etc etc.

    Our society is hung up on things being their whitest and brightest. From the actually washing to the products that make it happen (and making their packaging) there is a lot of water usage going on everywhere.
    The big change has to be not eating meat. The amount of water required to turn plant protein into meat is enormous. I can't say that I practice what I preach. If almost everyone stops eating meat than I can keep eating it and not feel guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Had lunch with a vendor yesterday that spent 19 years in Phoenix. He's been in Boise the past 10 though. Says that the big cities in AZ and even in Las Vegas don't have the infrastructure to deal with the monsoon rains. Maybe some of those billions that Kyrsten Sinema got for her state in that bill just signed by Biden will get them the funds to address some of those issues.
    The desert cities don't have storm sewers. The streets become water courses during monsoon rains, in addition to the natural arroyos. For the most part that works pretty well except when people refuse to wait for the water to go down. Unfortunately the storms usually come during the PM rush hour.

    Recommended reading--Beyond the Hundreth Meridian, by Wallace Stener. A biography of John Wesley Powell who understood the lack of water in the west in the 19th C. Cadillac Desert, by Marc Reisner, about water engineering in the West. (Such gems as the Bureau of Reclamation selling extremely subsidized water to western farmers to grow alfalfa while paying eastern farmers not to grow it.)

    A politician in the Central Valley is trying to revive a defunct plan for a new dam and reservoir. What good is a new reservoir when there isn't the water to fill the old ones?

  23. #48
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    My well ran dry 5 days ago (in Durango). No well drillers available to dig a new, deeper well, 2 year wait list. Good times. All my neighbors are good I'm the only one that has no water. Looks like I will be trucking it in for the foreseeable future. Fingers crossed we get enough rain to get the water table back up so my well starts pumping again.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    so here's a question - do we need to change the way we eat?
    Or change where the cattle ranches and dairies are located?
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    As for ag use, western farmers know more about saving water than any of us douchebags.
    no doubt
    but
    guess how many are going to sign up to cut ag water use by any significant amount? it's shooting their livelihoods in the foot...
    they might understand the issue and agree that efficiency & sustainability are in their interests, but very few will shut down or strangle their businesses to benefit the larger effort of water management

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