Water.....

[Buzzworthy]

Go for a walk and take some mushrooms


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I’m trying to get my dad to do this exact thing. He’s cool with gummies and even has his own vape now. We’re getting there…

[Bunion 2020]

I prefer to take the shrooms and then go for the walk.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I prefer to take the shrooms and then go for the walk.

That works too


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[gravitylover]

Take shrooms and go ski bumps, it's therapeutic. I haven't done that in 30 years, maybe I should try it again.

[lowsparkco]

Just had an “interesting” chairlift convo today with a recent arrival to Central OR from (judging by his accent) New England.
He was telling me about seeing Lake Mead and how depressing it was.
“And all this rain in California but no way to keep it from flowing straight into the ocean. What a travesty”

So I asked him if he knew
1. How much power it would take to hold and move all that water to where it was needed. Sort of surprised about needing to double California’s power generation.
2. How smart it was to build dams on known fault lines. Uh yea…
3. what crops are grown on Colorado river water. He didn’t.
4. How much water it takes to grow one almond, one pistachio or one pecan. Or enough cotton to make one Tshirt & pair of jeans. No clue
5. How much of those water-intensive crops are exported. No idea
6. How many salmon runs are endangered by agriculture drawdowns, specifically the Klamath where all the dams are being removed after the tribes sued. Blank look.

“Well, there must be a happy medium”

“Yea, start by cutting off the welfare queen farmers growing water intensive export crops that should not be grown in the fucking desert. And then quit building fucking golf courses in the fucking desert.”

Told him to read Cadillac Desert and Kittridge’s A Hole In the Sky then study up on the Klamath Project and what happened when drought hit the Ancient Puebloans.

OK maybe it was more of a diatribe by me than a conversation. But I did not ask if he was a Trumptard…

Welcome to the West, Pilgrim

I hear the Upper Klamath dam removal mentioned a lot in central Oregon. I often wonder how much is actually understood about the Project, the salmon fishery, and the lawsuit.

Fun facts: the K has very few salmon that return for spawn. Why? Bush Cheney decided minimum flow data was a libtard fantasy. They used some pseudoscience by a fish biologist that believes the Earth is 6,000 years old and lowered it to abysmal levels. The resulting die off was catastrophic. Indigenous, fishing guides, basically anyone who witnessed it report it was the most horrific thing they’ve ever seen. Dead fish piled up, rotting in every eddy.

Fun fact #2: the Klamath people won the lawsuit based off of population numbers and species health of a freshwater fish that lives in the lake, not Salmon.

Fun fact #3: The majority of the electrical power for southern Oregon comes from the dam at Copco. No plan for how that power will be replaced. Current predictions all include coal burning generators.

I guided rafting trips on the Upper K. Like most paddlers I think dams are absolutely devastating to riparian ecology. I also like flipping a switch in a dark room rather than looking for a match and a candle. There are no easy answers whether you live out west or back east or any where else. My solution? Stop the moratorium on nuclear power plants, but that certainly has its own set of risks and rewards, too.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Take shrooms and go ski bumps, it's therapeutic. I haven't done that in 30 years, maybe I should try it again.

Last Friday, good times. More untracked settled powder than bumps though


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[muted reborn]

Just had an “interesting” chairlift convo today with a recent arrival to Central OR from (judging by his accent) New England.
He was telling me about seeing Lake Mead and how depressing it was.
“And all this rain in California but no way to keep it from flowing straight into the ocean. What a travesty”

So I asked him if he knew
1. How much power it would take to hold and move all that water to where it was needed. Sort of surprised about needing to double California’s power generation.
2. How smart it was to build dams on known fault lines. Uh yea…
3. what crops are grown on Colorado river water. He didn’t.
4. How much water it takes to grow one almond, one pistachio or one pecan. Or enough cotton to make one Tshirt & pair of jeans. No clue
5. How much of those water-intensive crops are exported. No idea
6. How many salmon runs are endangered by agriculture drawdowns, specifically the Klamath where all the dams are being removed after the tribes sued. Blank look.

“Well, there must be a happy medium”

“Yea, start by cutting off the welfare queen farmers growing water intensive export crops that should not be grown in the fucking desert. And then quit building fucking golf courses in the fucking desert.”

Told him to read Cadillac Desert and Kittridge’s A Hole In the Sky then study up on the Klamath Project and what happened when drought hit the Ancient Puebloans.

OK maybe it was more of a diatribe by me than a conversation. But I did not ask if he was a Trumptard…

Welcome to the West, Pilgrim

pretty funny, ha. I've read both books but can't say I have a good grasp on water in the west, but I'm at least trying to learn. It blows my mind people who don't read anything about western water issues just start shooting from the hip their top-of-the-head solutions to everything water and also their lamentations about how CA could do more. The story of how CA got water in Cadillac Desert shows how faking ruthless CA was back in the day to get water and store it by any means necessary. "No way to keep it going into ocean" - yeah bud, nobody really tried in the past, buncha lazy fuckers those guys.

[leroy jenkins]

Just had an “interesting” chairlift convo today with a recent arrival to Central OR from (judging by his accent) New England.
He was telling me about seeing Lake Mead and how depressing it was.
“And all this rain in California but no way to keep it from flowing straight into the ocean. What a travesty”

So I asked him if he knew
1. How much power it would take to hold and move all that water to where it was needed. Sort of surprised about needing to double California’s power generation.
2. How smart it was to build dams on known fault lines. Uh yea…
3. what crops are grown on Colorado river water. He didn’t.
4. How much water it takes to grow one almond, one pistachio or one pecan. Or enough cotton to make one Tshirt & pair of jeans. No clue
5. How much of those water-intensive crops are exported. No idea
6. How many salmon runs are endangered by agriculture drawdowns, specifically the Klamath where all the dams are being removed after the tribes sued. Blank look.

“Well, there must be a happy medium”

“Yea, start by cutting off the welfare queen farmers growing water intensive export crops that should not be grown in the fucking desert. And then quit building fucking golf courses in the fucking desert.”

Told him to read Cadillac Desert and Kittridge’s A Hole In the Sky then study up on the Klamath Project and what happened when drought hit the Ancient Puebloans.

OK maybe it was more of a diatribe by me than a conversation. But I did not ask if he was a Trumptard…

Welcome to the West, Pilgrim

What about using that run off water to try and recharge aquafers instead of just flowing over concrete to the sea? You seem to operate off the assumption that reservoirs and pipelines are the only alternative, but what about just letting it flow into the soil in places?

[Cisco Kid]

My grandkids asked more intelligent questions when they were 4.

[leroy jenkins]

My grandkids asked more intelligent questions when they were 4.

This is a very stupid answer.

[Danno]

What about using that run off water to try and recharge aquafers instead of just flowing over concrete to the sea? You seem to operate off the assumption that reservoirs and pipelines are the only alternative, but what about just letting it flow into the soil in places?

recharge is a very slow process, that's one problem. And how do you get it to "recharge" and not "flow over concrete" without running the risk of massive flooding?

Please don't start gunning for SJG's status in this thread.

[oldnew_guy]

Not to mention this was already covered in this thread.

[leroy jenkins]

recharge is a very slow process, that's one problem. And how do you get it to "recharge" and not "flow over concrete" without running the risk of massive flooding?

Please don't start gunning for SJG's status in this thread.

Controlled flooding? Tuscon Pheonix etc seem to use a flood control system that channels some amount of water back into the soil in small localized places. Seems like a good idea.

Sorry I haven't read every post in this 25 page thread.

[bodywhomper]

California prop 1 funded projects included GW recharge projects and new surface water storage projects. Everything is moving slowly. It’s also new for the state to try to combine water storage projects with public (environmental and recreational) benefit.

https://youtu.be/Dk4bz5rskn4

[Not DJSapp]

Controlled flooding? Tuscon Pheonix etc seem to use a flood control system that channels some amount of water back into the soil in small localized places. Seems like a good idea.

Sorry I haven't read every post in this 25 page thread.

Groudwater recharge through the heavy clay layer in the valley is a very, very slow process. Would result in lakes spanning thousands of square miles to make any kind of significant impact, which is a problem for the cities and farms that exist there already. Evaporation is an issue too, since the valley is hot AF in the summer, and these would be shallow lakes.

Pumped groundwater injection is promising, but energy intensive and very localized. I threw together some rough numbers on what that looks like on a big scale some pages back. TL;DR, it takes more money and energy than anyone is willing to spend.

[paulster2626]

Just had an “interesting” chairlift convo today with a recent arrival to Central OR from (judging by his accent) New England.
He was telling me about seeing Lake Mead and how depressing it was.
“And all this rain in California but no way to keep it from flowing straight into the ocean. What a travesty”

So I asked him if he knew
1. How much power it would take to hold and move all that water to where it was needed. Sort of surprised about needing to double California’s power generation.
2. How smart it was to build dams on known fault lines. Uh yea…
3. what crops are grown on Colorado river water. He didn’t.
4. How much water it takes to grow one almond, one pistachio or one pecan. Or enough cotton to make one Tshirt & pair of jeans. No clue
5. How much of those water-intensive crops are exported. No idea
6. How many salmon runs are endangered by agriculture drawdowns, specifically the Klamath where all the dams are being removed after the tribes sued. Blank look.

“Well, there must be a happy medium”

“Yea, start by cutting off the welfare queen farmers growing water intensive export crops that should not be grown in the fucking desert. And then quit building fucking golf courses in the fucking desert.”

Told him to read Cadillac Desert and Kittridge’s A Hole In the Sky then study up on the Klamath Project and what happened when drought hit the Ancient Puebloans.

OK maybe it was more of a diatribe by me than a conversation. But I did not ask if he was a Trumptard…

Welcome to the West, Pilgrim

Haha, so he asked pretty much the same question I did when i bumped this thread, and then got berated for an entire chairlift ride for it. Too funny.

Gonna add water to the usual list of religion/politics to never bring up to people on chairlifts, lest someone goes balls-deep on me for making some sort of (albeit ignorant) observation. Just stick to what I know, and only ask questions about the terrain. This is the way.

[Cisco Kid]

This is a very stupid answer.

Well, it was a very ignorant question.

[alias_rice]

Haha, so he asked pretty much the same question I did when i bumped this thread, and then got berated for an entire chairlift ride for it. Too funny.

Gonna add water to the usual list of religion/politics to never bring up to people on chairlifts, lest someone goes balls-deep on me for making some sort of (albeit ignorant) observation. Just stick to what I know, and only ask questions about the terrain. This is the way.

I would trade a water diatribe for the guy who spent the whole ride on Monday telling me how much money he makes.

[dunfree]

This site has some good visualizations of the snowpack and reservoir status
https://engaging-data.com/california...-and-snowpack/

Recharge acquifers = turn Central Valley back into seasonal lakes and marshes it was, an idea with obvious problems

[PB]

Yeah e.g. mosquitoes/diseases

[leroy jenkins]

Groudwater recharge through the heavy clay layer in the valley is a very, very slow process. Would result in lakes spanning thousands of square miles to make any kind of significant impact, which is a problem for the cities and farms that exist there already. Evaporation is an issue too, since the valley is hot AF in the summer, and these would be shallow lakes.

Pumped groundwater injection is promising, but energy intensive and very localized. I threw together some rough numbers on what that looks like on a big scale some pages back. TL;DR, it takes more money and energy than anyone is willing to spend.

it seems to me like drilling wells through the clay layer but not bothering to use a bunch of energy to actively pump through them, just holes that fill with water when it floods that are drilled to permeate the clay, would be a happy medium. But I'm sure theres more to it than that.

[leroy jenkins]

I would trade a water diatribe for the guy who spent the whole ride on Monday telling me how much money he makes.

There is a lift chair/hot springs appropriate way to talk about philosophy politics religion or sex but money is always crass.

[old goat]

Controlled flooding? Tuscon Pheonix etc seem to use a flood control system that channels some amount of water back into the soil in small localized places. Seems like a good idea.

Sorry I haven't read every post in this 25 page thread.

I lived in Tucson. The flood control "system" is to let the water run down the streets into historical washes and into the dry riverbeds--like the Rillito--and out into the desert. In other words there is no flodd control system. Most of the water evaporates before it reaches the aquifer. https://ca.water.usgs.gov/pubs/FLint...eling_2004.pdf The same is true for a number of rivers on the east slope of the Sierra--like the Truckee, the Carson, and the Walker.

The water the Tucson is recharging with comes from its excess allotment from the Colordo--an allotment that will almost surely be reduced. It's a lot easier to pump water down into an acquifer a little at a time than trying to capture monsoon runoff where a third of the annual rainfall can fall over a couple of hours in a single summer afternoon.

[fastfred]

am I missing some zeros or reading this wrong?

Central Arizona Project $165.00 per acre foot wholesale water
Denver Water $18,980.00 per acre foot wholesale water

https://www.denverwater.org/contract...opment-charges

https://library.cap-az.com/documents...e-Schedule.pdf

[present tense]

This site has some good visualizations of the snowpack and reservoir status
https://engaging-data.com/california...-and-snowpack/

Recharge acquifers = turn Central Valley back into seasonal lakes and marshes it was, an idea with obvious problems

That is a pretty interesting visualization - am I interpreting correct that for the current total volume of water (in the sierras only?) about half is in snowpack and half in reservoirs?

Earlier in the thread someone explained that the snowpack storage volume relative to reservoirs was several orders of magnitude more? I know I’m probably missing something.