Water.....

[oldnew_guy]

As usual, missing from the conversation is any discussion of the environmental impact of doing any of this.

Moving water around and even storing it for food control and power in the west has had huge negative consequences.

No one made people move to the western deserts of AZ.

[PB]

That'll be probably never. But broccoli, green beans, kale, brussels sprouts (and others I can't think of right now) are good candidates. Fresh herbs for sure.

If those items ( excluding Brussel sprouts because .... gagging) can be produced reliably and efficiently, that would would help considerably. I still don't see it being able to supply the basic carbohydrates and proteins needed in large quantities keep the majority of the world's population going. It definitely has it's place in limited, specialized environments e.g. domed colonies on Mars, but not sure if it will ever be commercially profitable on a large scale. Add some Tilapia production into the design and it does get a little more interesting, but also even more expensive and prone to catastrophic failure.

And yeah, demanding we move more water to desert communities is hilarious and infuriating.

[Bunion 2020]

And yeah, demanding we move more water to desert communities is hilarious and infuriating and quite insane.

ETA

[Not DJSapp]

More relevant maps

[Dantheman]

Forget >1,000-mile pipelines and high-tech vertical indoor farming. There is so much low-hanging fruit out there to be picked. Thousands and thousands of miles of existing canals and ditches that lose incalculable volumes of water to leakage and evaporation, continued use of inefficient centuries-old irrigation techniques, straight-up over watering, stupid-ass grass parking strips, etc. Pipe the canals and ditches, upgrade to modern irrigation equipment and techniques, rip out the pointless patches of grass, etc.. I'm even completely fine with the government paying farmers and property owners to do this. It's an economic stimulus program in the short-term and will pay for itself multiple times over the long-term.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ He is right you know.

Same with some form of Gov. incentives to insulate homes and make existing construction way more efficient.

[SumJongGuy]

^^^And buying and driving EVs.. And getting rid of gas stoves (BOOM!). I caught the Cash for Klunkers bucks and scored bigtime with that in 2009. It's gonna take lots of free money and free stuff to encourage big (and little) agriculture to do better and modernize for better water allocation and usage.

But, good luck with "socialism" in farm country.. it will take a LOT of free money/stuff to get them to accept it and make the changes.. Funny thing with socialism and people vehemently opposed to it.. The more the public offers, the less likely the people who claim to be so opposed to it are to hold their ground.. It's an inverse relationship for sure...

[mcphee]

^goddamn, son. Bless your heart.

[SumJongGuy]

^goddamn, son. Bless your heart.

You'll bless your own for the better of society when there's a big enough gubberment teet to suck on.

[bodywhomper]

There’s argument that Canal leakage is not necessarily a waste. Depending on how waste is defined and where leakages are occurring.

[Bunion 2020]

^goddamn, son. Bless your heart.

Right? Its as if he has never considered farm subsidies.

In the U.S., subsidies to the agriculture sector typically run around $20 billion per year. In 2020, bailouts rocketed that number to over $50 billion.

[TBS]

We already have the techniques. Israel has pioneered a number of low water usage techniques. No one in the states uses them because why would you? Water is cheap and you just whine any time the taps get restricted.
I'd bet you could reduce water usage by 50-60% without much impact other than some mild price impacts.

Yup, we’ve had the techniques for a long time
One of the biggest things we could do is to quit growing water intensive crops in the fucking desert.

Ms TBS’ grandfather grew cotton in Maricopa and Pima counties - it takes about 5k gal of water to grow enough cotton for a pair of pants and a Tshirt - prolly more in AZ where they mainly use sprinklers rather than drip irrigation

Almonds and pecans are also heavy water users grown in AZ.

[Buster Highmen]

[neufox47]

HIgh school bands up north had a great racket in the 70s and 80s having a truckload of oranges delivered from Florida in January and selling them as fundraisers.. because you couldn't buy them anywhere else.

Just when do you think Oranges are “in season” when grown under natural conditions in the US?

[bodywhomper]

Yup, we’ve had the techniques for a long time
One of the biggest things we could do is to quit growing water intensive crops in the fucking desert.

Ms TBS’ grandfather grew cotton in Maricopa and Pima counties - it takes about 5k gal of water to grow enough cotton for a pair of pants and a Tshirt - prolly more in AZ where they mainly use sprinklers rather than drip irrigation

Almonds and pecans are also heavy water users grown in AZ.

I had a project once involving an irrigation district on the Gila River. You don’t fuck with those farmers. They run a Mormon racket that’s existed since the time that the Mormons first occupied the area because they were fleeing the United States.

[TBS]

^^^wanna guess the religion of Ms TBS’ ancestors?

[PB]

I had a project once involving an irrigation district on the Gila River. You don’t fuck with those farmers. They run a Mormon racket that’s existed since the time that the Mormons first occupied the area because they were fleeing the United States.

Whoa ..... does Buzzworthy know this???

[half-fast]

Walmart is looking at setting up indoor farming near their distribution centers

[SumJongGuy]

Just when do you think Oranges are “in season” when grown under natural conditions in the US?

Little mandarin ones Dec-January.. bigger ones Feb-March..

[ötzi]

Vertically farmed Banzai almond Trees. We'll be rich.

[Buzzworthy]

Whoa ..... does Buzzworthy know this???

You mean the cult does shady shit? Noooooo

[PB]

Vertically farmed Banzai almond Trees. We'll be rich.

And Kamikaze pistachios!

[TBS]

Just had an “interesting” chairlift convo today with a recent arrival to Central OR from (judging by his accent) New England.
He was telling me about seeing Lake Mead and how depressing it was.
“And all this rain in California but no way to keep it from flowing straight into the ocean. What a travesty”

So I asked him if he knew
1. How much power it would take to hold and move all that water to where it was needed. Sort of surprised about needing to double California’s power generation.
2. How smart it was to build dams on known fault lines. Uh yea…
3. what crops are grown on Colorado river water. He didn’t.
4. How much water it takes to grow one almond, one pistachio or one pecan. Or enough cotton to make one Tshirt & pair of jeans. No clue
5. How much of those water-intensive crops are exported. No idea
6. How many salmon runs are endangered by agriculture drawdowns, specifically the Klamath where all the dams are being removed after the tribes sued. Blank look.

“Well, there must be a happy medium”

“Yea, start by cutting off the welfare queen farmers growing water intensive export crops that should not be grown in the fucking desert. And then quit building fucking golf courses in the fucking desert.”

Told him to read Cadillac Desert and Kittridge’s A Hole In the Sky then study up on the Klamath Project and what happened when drought hit the Ancient Puebloans.

OK maybe it was more of a diatribe by me than a conversation. But I did not ask if he was a Trumptard…

Welcome to the West, Pilgrim

[thefortrees]

But what will the 2nd home owners, retirees, and vacationers do in the desert if we stop building golf courses?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

But what will the 2nd home owners, retirees, and vacationers do in the desert if we stop building golf courses?

Go for a walk and take some mushrooms


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