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Thread: Water.....

  1. #401
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    Yes, we all know people of faith believe in the power of prayer. That ain't news. What's news is SLC county greatly reduced their usage this summer with no financial incentive.

    The most concerning news lately (as in TODAY) is that the Supreme Court is soon tackling the Clean Water Act. Half of our wetlands could become unprotected as well as many streams. Pacific Legal Foundation is involved, a non-profit, who have been bankrolled in the past by the Koch brothers and many large corporations. They are pro capitalism at any costs, so with the current Supreme Court there's a great chance the Clean Water Act will be throttled greatly in the name of less government regulation and developers everywhere.

  2. #402
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    Here's a HCN article about the case. It's not just wetlands but also seasonal streams and rivers.

  3. #403
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    Why doesn't the governor do what we do around here when we need snow and hold a big car wash? To be fair the last time they did that it didn't snow, but at least people had clean cars.

  4. #404
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    Jeebus drives a dirty car.

  5. #405
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    Then y'all should be praying to me.

  6. #406
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    They should use government funds to hire rain dancers. Logical next step


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  7. #407
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    Rain dancers? That's crazy.

  8. #408
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    Hey, Mormon prayer worked for the locusts. Why not for rain?

  9. #409
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    The 15-year legal saga began after Chantell and Mike Sackett bought an undeveloped lot about 300 feet from the shore of Priest Lake in 2004. When they started filling it with sand and gravel to prepare for construction in 2007, the Environmental Protection Agency said that because the property sat on federally protected wetland, the couple needed to obtain a costly federal permit or face heavy fines.
    All I can say is for the last 10-15 years this is how I have had to interpret wetlands and minimize impact to them. You can do a lot to wetlands but the minute you begin adding any fill material to a delineated wetland you have fucked with the wrong thing.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  10. #410
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    Today's hot take on the news.. Food shortages expected nationwide because.... Tons of trucks full of recent harvest produce and grain are backed up sitting idle because barges in the Mississippi can't move because the water levels are too low. The barges are the main way these products get to grain elevators for storage and then to market.. File this under, YES, the climate change drought DOES impact you too...

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/barges-idl...ry?id=91300170
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  11. #411
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    Yea, of course Humans could use water more wisely, but....

    .... Science still is far from figuring out how and why rainfall and climate can change on the global scale> perfect example is the Sahara desert. Once, a tropical grassland and now a desert. I doubt 20k sq ft mansions and almond farms were the reason for its change

    Massive population increases sure don't help. We appear to be on the brink of a perfect storm of both natural climate change with a possible manmade kick start, and overpopulation depleting resources. The Earth has been cycling hot, cold, wet, dry climates for millions of years-differences now is we humans are here to experience in it.
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    Yea, of course Humans could use water more wisely, but....

    .... Science still is far from figuring out how and why rainfall and climate can change on the global scale> perfect example is the Sahara desert. Once, a tropical grassland and now a desert. I doubt 20k sq ft mansions and almond farms were the reason for its change

    Massive population increases sure don't help. We appear to be on the brink of a perfect storm of both natural climate change with a possible manmade kick start, and overpopulation depleting resources. The Earth has been cycling hot, cold, wet, dry climates for millions of years-differences now is we humans are here to experience in it.
    True.. But short sighted human decisions have exacerbated the problems ...and continue to do so...
    what's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    Yea, of course Humans could use water more wisely, but....

    .... Science still is far from figuring out how and why rainfall and climate can change on the global scale> perfect example is the Sahara desert. Once, a tropical grassland and now a desert. I doubt 20k sq ft mansions and almond farms were the reason for its change
    1930s Great Plains Okie dust bowl creating humans say hold my beer..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by up an down View Post
    True.. But short sighted human decisions have exacerbated the problems ...and continue to do so...
    Sure-the Earth is like a Ski Lift- it will breakdown eventually without anyone on it, but riders can sure help derail it
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  15. #415
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    Whenever people talk about natural temperature variability


  16. #416
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    ^^^ Thanks for posting that. I have said it before. Humans have a very difficult time comprehending Time and how long we have been on this planet VS how long the planet has been in existence.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  17. #417
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    Yes there have been huge climate changes over the last few billion years.
    In the long run the earth will no longer support life, the sun will go dark, the universe will go cold, existence will cease. In the long run nothing matters
    It's up to us if we want to keep the planet livable in the short run.

  18. #418
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    Well that chart pretty much says it all.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Well that chart pretty much says it all.
    I just shared that on a Nextdoor thread where a denier is trying to use those same red herring outliers to say we've been warmer. I explained those were regional phenomenon and included in the GLOBAL analysis for those periods of time, still not warmer than now globally.. Idiot doubles down so I shared that graphic..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I just shared that on a Nextdoor thread

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    Not sure of the energy requirements of each but desal results in mtns of salt that is very hard to store and at quantity is toxic to the environment (both terrestrial and aquatic).
    Ignoring the chemicals aspect (household, industrial, pharmaceuticals) in wastewater, most of the biowaste after treatment can be used in agriculture in some manner.

    Maybe if that salt could be used in some kind of battery or some such, it wouldn’t be such an issue in the desal calculation.
    There are not mountains of salt as a RO desal plant is not that efficient. From memory the recovery is something like 30-40% so 70 to 60% of water is still there so if the water starts out at 35,000 ppm TDS you get around 60,000 ppm which is pretty salty but still a long way from salt come out of solution. When you get to 50k the membranes are hardly producing any water as the osmotic pressure to over come approaches the pressure you have left with.

    You can increase that recovery rate but it greatly increases the energy consumption so not sure what the driver would be as now you have to deal with more concentrated brine and there is lots of seawater in the ocean.

    The energy consumption for desal RO is 3.5kwh/m3 so at 1m3 per day per household that is only $.35/day plus the capital cost of the plant. So high but not crazy high. Probably too high for irrigation.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

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    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    All I can say is for the last 10-15 years this is how I have had to interpret wetlands and minimize impact to them. You can do a lot to wetlands but the minute you begin adding any fill material to a delineated wetland you have fucked with the wrong thing.
    You can get a permit to fill wetlands or other waters of the US, but you’ll probably have to do some kind of compensatory mitigation, either on-site or buy credits in a mitigation bank.

    In the HCN quoted, I can’t speak to Idaho but I doubt it was a “costly” federal permit. The permitting costs in Montana aren’t that significant. What they call a costly permit was probably buying credits to offset the impact of filling the wetland. They probably see that as the same thing.

    I think this ruling will be a big one, especially in the SW. in Montana basically any water is a water of the state except for wastewater lagoons or an irrigation ditch that doesn’t return to a state water. But that means that wetlands are only protected by state law when there’s water in them.

  23. #423
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    You can get a permit to fill wetlands or other waters of the US, but you’ll probably have to do some kind of compensatory mitigation, either on-site or buy credits in a mitigation bank.
    Very succinctly put. In my case the trick is keeping the guys in the big yellow machines from doing things to those wetlands before the permitting has been done. And as you probably know, a wetland isn't always wet even though it is considered a wetland.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I just shared that on a Nextdoor thread where a denier is trying to use those same red herring outliers to say we've been warmer. I explained those were regional phenomenon and included in the GLOBAL analysis for those periods of time, still not warmer than now globally.. Idiot doubles down so I shared that graphic..
    Lemme guess, triples down now.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghosthop View Post
    Whenever people talk about natural temperature variability

    Do you have a link to that graphic? Unreadable on my phone even zoomed.

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