Water.....

[SkiBall]

I just gonna stay close to he headwaters. Downstream capitalism at all the fast food joints feeding meat products to the masses that they really don’t need to the degree we eat it can drink up the rest. Some places that is about the only food option. Not the only, but you know. But traveling in BFE Utah, yeah, I’ll succumb to a Wendy’s to get me to where I am going. It’s that or beef jerky and a bag of Chex Mix.

[ötzi]

I just gonna stay close to he headwaters. Downstream capitalism at all the fast food joints feeding meat products to the masses that they really don’t need to the degree we eat it can drink up the rest. Some places that is about the only food option. Not the only, but you know. But traveling in BFE Utah, yeah, I’ll succumb to a Wendy’s to get me to where I am going. It’s that or beef jerky and a bag of Chex Mix.

I'm sure there was a point in your mind when you started.

[muted reborn]

I'm sure there was a point in your mind when you started.

He had me at Chex Mix then quit, wtf.

From todays Land Desk:

"And the snowpack is looking good. Very good. As of Feb. 28, snow levels in the Upper Colorado River Basin were well above average and tracking similarly to 2011, one of the most bountiful water years of the last two decades. That spring and summer saw rivers swelling up, overflowing their banks, and giving river runners a good — yet dangerous — time. Lake Powell’s level climbed 45 feet that year, in spite of larger than average releases from the dam. It’s certainly too early to count on a repeat of the 2011 Colorado River runoff. Snowfall trends could flip. Early springtime temperatures could soar, as they did in 2021, which not only speeds up the runoff but also diminishes it by increasing evaporation. The parched ground could suck up some of the snowmelt, taking it away from the streams.

Yet there is still plenty of reason to be optimistic."

Yeah, I know it's a small temporary fix but good news is good news. And there's a bunch of atmospheric rivers teeing up now to nail CA/UT/CO for most of March.

[SkiBall]

I'm sure there was a point in your mind when you started.

Possibly, but questionable.
Upstream > downstream. And we are lazy with our food options. Cheap cow parts will never go out of style.

Edit: I like the Turtle Chex Mix fwiw.

[altacoup]

He had me at Chex Mix then quit, wtf.

From todays Land Desk:

"And the snowpack is looking good. Very good. As of Feb. 28, snow levels in the Upper Colorado River Basin were well above average and tracking similarly to 2011, one of the most bountiful water years of the last two decades. That spring and summer saw rivers swelling up, overflowing their banks, and giving river runners a good — yet dangerous — time. Lake Powell’s level climbed 45 feet that year, in spite of larger than average releases from the dam. It’s certainly too early to count on a repeat of the 2011 Colorado River runoff. Snowfall trends could flip. Early springtime temperatures could soar, as they did in 2021, which not only speeds up the runoff but also diminishes it by increasing evaporation. The parched ground could suck up some of the snowmelt, taking it away from the streams.

Yet there is still plenty of reason to be optimistic."

Yeah, I know it's a small temporary fix but good news is good news. And there's a bunch of atmospheric rivers teeing up now to nail CA/UT/CO for most of March.

What’s this about atmospheric rivers lined up for March?

[evdog]

Golf courses in the desert? No fucking way.

Palm Springs says hold my beer....

I was trying to find a pic from higher up on this trail looking back down at town. It's embarrassing how many golf courses there are. Satellite view shows it pretty well: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7073.../data=!3m1!1e3

[Meadow Skipper]

Palm Springs says hold my beer....

I was trying to find a pic from higher up on this trail looking back down at town. It's embarrassing how many golf courses there are. Satellite view shows it pretty well: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7073.../data=!3m1!1e3

Back on the day, I went to a lot of meetings in Phoenix. As I was flying in, I’d pass the time trying to count all the golf courses. It was pretty stunning.

https://www.visitphoenix.com/things-...outdoors/golf/

Phoenix and its neighboring communities are home to nearly 200 golf courses in a variety of styles, and Greater Phoenix is known as one of the top destinations for golf.

Then there are the huge and ubiquitous outdoor fountains there.

[SkiBall]

The desert eventually takes back what belongs to it. The desert makes no illusion about what it is, but man’s ego refuses to believe that his can do spirit will overcome.
“And in doing so, each gave just a little bit of his soul away…what a coupla dumbshits”

[byates1]

Nice primus lyric

[Toadman]

Time for golf courses to go artificial turf. Maybe just make the putting greens area natural turf.

[bodywhomper]

Wake of the flood, laughing water, forty-nine,
Get out the pans, don't just stand there dreamin'
Get out of the way, get out of the way,

https://www.ppic.org/blog/an-epic-sn...oaquin-valley/

“It is reasonable, given the immense snowpack, to anticipate and prepare for a very wet spring in the Tulare Lake Basin and the adjoining San Joaquin River Basin. But there is an unanticipated wrinkle this year. For the past decade, extensive groundwater withdrawal has lowered portions of the Tulare Basin, including areas both in and around the historic lake. This is likely to have two impacts. First, flooding may affect a potentially wider area that’s now lower and within reach of flood waters. Second, even though infrastructure that’s used to move water around in the Tulare Basin is critical to managing floodwaters, subsidence has altered the slope of many irrigation canals, reducing their capacity to move water. It’s not yet clear how this will impact flood management, but it could pose a challenge.

Finally, the impacts of subsidence on the flooding of Tulare Lake will really depend on how fast the epic snowpack runs off. At the time of writing, one potent atmospheric river impacted California just before the weekend, and another system is following close on its heels. This will mostly speed up the melting of low-elevation snow, where snowpacks are easily warmed and melted by these rains. At high elevations, these storms are likely to just add to an already thick snowpack which, like clockwork, will start to melt after April 1.”

[raisingarizona13]

Gold Courses don't come close to water use like the average persons daily uses are. If that area was covered in houses the usage would be a lot more. Jus sayin.

I don't think it's a responsible use of water in the south west but if I'm honest neither is snowmaking.

[Danno]

Gold Courses don't come close to water use like the average persons daily uses are. If that area was covered in houses the usage would be a lot more. Jus sayin.

I don't think it's a responsible use of water in the south west but if I'm honest neither is snowmaking.

I don't think snowmaking has a very high consumptive use.

[cat in january]

I used to think that most of snowmaking just returned down the hill, but I have read most of the water is lost to evaporation

[Meadow Skipper]

I used to think that most of snowmaking just returned down the hill, but I have read most of the water is lost to evaporation

Source?

At the New Mexico ski area where I worked, the state set 10% of the water used for snowmaking as lost. That means the state hydrologists figured 90% of the water used went back into the watershed.

And FWIW they figured the water used to make snow was saved for later in the water year than if it just ran off in the fall and early winter. Maybe that’s true.

[Meadow Skipper]

Looked it up.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...019.00078/full

It’s more complicated than this, but:

We find that 7 to 35 ± 7% (mean 21%) of the consumed water was lost during snow-making and that the loss is strongly related to the ambient meteorological conditions.

Three physical processes come in consideration as sources of these water losses. These are (1) evaporation and sublimation of water droplets and ice particles while traveling through the air, (2) wind drift of particles and accumulation out of the bounds of the target area, and (3) drainage of unfrozen water on the ground. Distinguishing between these processes in an experimental setup is extremely challenging and hardly possible during operational conditions as presented here.

[old goat]

Looked it up.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...019.00078/full

It’s more complicated than this, but:

Of the 3 kinds of losses in the sentences you quoted only one--evaporation and sublimation--removes the water from the watershed. Manmade snow that is outside the target area and drainage of liquid water are still within the watershed.

[Meadow Skipper]

Of the 3 kinds of losses in the sentences you quoted only one--evaporation and sublimation--removes the water from the watershed. Manmade snow that is outside the target area and drainage of liquid water are still within the watershed.

Yeah, I saw/noticed that. I was kind of in a hurry. I think that 10% figure I put up earlier is probably pretty close for loss to the watershed.

[bodywhomper]

Looks like the great western Sierra runoff is starting. This site is east of Tracy, CA, on the San Joaquin river. "Danger [zone!] Stage" defined as "The Stage at which the flow in a flood control project is greater than maximum design capacity" and at which there is "threat of significant hazard to life and property in the event of levee failure." Forecast shown js at “29.8 feet” top of levee is 37.3 feet.

[LongShortLong]

He had me at Chex Mix then quit, wtf.

From todays Land Desk:

"And the snowpack is looking good. Very good. As of Feb. 28, snow levels in the Upper Colorado River Basin were well above average and tracking similarly to 2011, one of the most bountiful water years of the last two decades. That spring and summer saw rivers swelling up, overflowing their banks, and giving river runners a good — yet dangerous — time. Lake Powell’s level climbed 45 feet that year, in spite of larger than average releases from the dam. It’s certainly too early to count on a repeat of the 2011 Colorado River runoff. Snowfall trends could flip. Early springtime temperatures could soar, as they did in 2021, which not only speeds up the runoff but also diminishes it by increasing evaporation. The parched ground could suck up some of the snowmelt, taking it away from the streams.
[/COLOR]
Yet there is still plenty of reason to be optimistic."
[/COLOR]
Yeah, I know it's a small temporary fix but good news is good news. And there's a bunch of atmospheric rivers teeing up now to nail CA/UT/CO for most of March.

Lake Powell is down almost 180 feet today. Now, the bottom part rises faster, so a 2011 runoff may produce a greater than 45 foot rise, but it'll still be way down.

As for the CA peeps, anyone seen anything about late spring / summer floods on the Sacramento River? Is all this water going to fit?

[muted reborn]

Lake Powell is down almost 180 feet today. Now, the bottom part rises faster, so a 2011 runoff may produce a greater than 45 foot rise, but it'll still be way down.

We all understand this.

[bodywhomper]

As for the CA peeps, anyone seen anything about late spring / summer floods on the Sacramento River? Is all this water going to fit?

I’m trying to call it the great western Sierra runoff, but am open to suggestions.

https://www.ppic.org/blog/an-epic-sn...oaquin-valley/

[LongShortLong]

I’m trying to call it the great western Sierra runoff, but am open to suggestions.

https://www.ppic.org/blog/an-epic-sn...oaquin-valley/

Thanks. No mention of Sacramento River. Maybe Shasta and Oroville had plenty of storage relative to their watersheds' snowpacks.

[bodywhomper]

Thanks. No mention of Sacramento River. Maybe Shasta and Oroville had plenty of storage relative to their watersheds' snowpacks.

Yeah. I also noticed the focus only on the San Joaquin, too. I’m not sure about the sac river and reservoir capacity. The first areas at risk is on the San Joaquin.

[Not DJSapp]

Thanks. No mention of Sacramento River. Maybe Shasta and Oroville had plenty of storage relative to their watersheds' snowpacks.

Short version: it's complicated, but the yolo and sutter bypasses take a huge amount of water off of the northern rivers. The southern half of the valley doesn't have this and could be in trouble.

Long version: last week's atmospheric river and next weeks are coming in warm with snowlines starting at 8000'+ and dropping to 5500' toward the end, as compaired to the storms that came in 2+ weeks ago that brought snow lines down to 1000 ft. We're seeing significant runoff from everything between 1000-6000 right now and a bit from 6000-8000 when it got rained on and then the temp dropped back down. The next storm is about as warm as the last, so it isn't going to punch above its weight in terms of runoff like the last one. The magic of the Northern side of the delta is the Yolo and Sutter bypasses. These bypasses can take 500,000 cfs of water from the Sacramento, Yuba, Feather and American Rivers once they get close to flood stage. Each of those rivers may have localized issues with levees being stressed upstream, but once it reaches the bypass the floodrisk is significantly mitigated.

Yolo bypass model


This allows the army corp and bureau of reclaimation to hold more water in Oroville, Folsom, Shasta, etc. as they can make the call when to dump and how much to dump based on the 10 day weather models. The nightmare is a very warm rain on snow event where they can't dump water out of the reservoirs faster than it can come in, or that they have to dump so much so fast, the levees downstream are at risk until it hits the bypass. There has been a huge effort in the last 20 years to rebuild and strengthen levees in the Sacramento Valley. South of the delta, everything leaving the central valley exits via the San Joaquin river, and there is no bypass. The SJ just keeps loading up, which is problematic when there is large snow and a sudden melt. Typically the Western Slope of the Central Sierra doesn't see this kind of snowpack as the Pinnicals and Santa Cruz Mountains take their pieces of each storm as they roll in.