Water.....

[adrenalated]

It's actually one of the crappier articles on the subject, IMO. This one is better but still not great: https://www.hcn.org/issues/54.7/sout...e-river-access

I'd be interested in hearing your take on it.

[bodywhomper]

I’ve seen the USACE denote a dry, 4’ wide, manmade drainage ditch a Navigable WOTUS… The definition is super loose.

Also - “Private Beach” signs are bullshit.


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The definition of waters of the us is currently in flux. I think I think that the Oregon peeps are describing a state-specific definition.

In California, there’s also multiple definitions: water of the US (federal definition), waters of the state, bed and bank, and sovereign State Lands, coastline,… I’m probably missing a few.

[Mazderati]

Navigable is any waterway sufficient to float a Supreme Court opinion.

Like.

[goldenboy]

There are Karens here who must spend all day waiting to call the sheriff the second an oar touches a rock. It seems so weird to me.

[PB]

The definition of waters of the us is currently in flux. I think I think that the Oregon peeps are describing a state-specific definition.

In California, there’s also multiple definitions: water of the US (federal definition), waters of the state, bed and bank, and sovereign State Lands, coastline,… I’m probably missing a few.

Very simple<sarcasm> way to determine: dump waste water and see what permit you should have gotten, surface water discharge or ground water discharge. Prepare to go bankrupt.

[PB]

Navigable is any waterway sufficient to float a Supreme Court opinion.

More interested how much water it takes to sink said opinion.

[bodywhomper]

Very simple<sarcasm> way to determine: dump waste water and see what permit you should have gotten, surface water discharge or ground water discharge. Prepare to go bankrupt.

[dunfree]

Navigable is any waterway sufficient to float a Supreme Court opinion.

which means it could make someone enough money to buy a court. Hence in Minnesota navigable effectively means “at least once a year it can float a log to market”. Timber had the money

[BCMtnHound]

I’ve never investigated the cut-off in BC about what definition of waterway constitutes crown land and access below the high water mark is guaranteed to the public. Large rivers and most lakes are not only public, but access is typically ensured if it existed prior to development. There’s been a few large ranches that have lost the fight to restrict access to lakes.

I am in the minority in that no one should even be able to own and develop land within a distance of 100m or so from any waterbody, be it lake or river. Both from an access perspective and and ecological role. Too much degradation to extremely valuable and sensitive riparian ecosystems because rich person wants lawn, sandy beach and oversized wharf/dock all to themselves. At the very least, such privilege should be concentrated so the impact to the ecology is measured and minimized.

But I live in reality. And at least el Hefe shares some of the wealth to benefit us all!

[thedude2340]

Not about consumptive use but makes more sense here than anywhere...
(link should be past paywall) https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/b...smid=share-url

I’m stuck on “dry fly fisherman”. Guy’s never, once even, floated a nymph, streamer, etc.?

[old goat]

I’ve never investigated the cut-off in BC about what definition of waterway constitutes crown land and access below the high water mark is guaranteed to the public. Large rivers and most lakes are not only public, but access is typically ensured if it existed prior to development. There’s been a few large ranches that have lost the fight to restrict access to lakes.

I am in the minority in that no one should even be able to own and develop land within a distance of 100m or so from any waterbody, be it lake or river. Both from an access perspective and and ecological role. Too much degradation to extremely valuable and sensitive riparian ecosystems because rich person wants lawn, sandy beach and oversized wharf/dock all to themselves. At the very least, such privilege should be concentrated so the impact to the ecology is measured and minimized.

But I live in reality. And at least el Hefe shares some of the wealth to benefit us all!

Don't worry--in a few decades, or years, or months, or maybe tomorrow--people living along bodies of water will either be under them or looking at dry river or lake beds full of rotting dead fish and bodies.

[SumJongGuy]

I'm pretty sure we'd be screwed in lots of places without manmade lakes. Isn't that also water that would flow to the oceans contributing to sea level rise fi we weren't holding it in those manmade reservoirs?

Never imagined that Mead and others that big out west would be failing like this. It can happen anywhere I suppose.

[PB]

Ha! So obvious! The solution to rising sea levels. ...... use more water!

[old goat]

What if the reservoir is on a treadmill?

[bodywhomper]

The story (that we know) of Lake Cahuilla is fascinating:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla

[SumJongGuy]

What if the reservoir is on a treadmill?

Perpetual waterfall FTW?

[ötzi]

The story (that we know) of Lake Cahuilla is fascinating:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla

That's interesting thanks. Somewhat along the same lines was Lake Missoula.

[Ted Striker]

But I live in reality. And at least el Hefe shares some of the wealth to benefit us all!

Isn't Kal Lake manmade anyway?

[shroom]

That's interesting thanks. Somewhat along the same lines was Lake Missoula.

that my hood and hadn’t read that. thanks for the link

[abraham]

That's interesting thanks. Somewhat along the same lines was Lake Missoula.

This 2 minute video helps explain the scale of that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMbsGHVzXRU

This huge rock from Canada in the Willamette valley also helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errati...e_Natural_Site

[BCMtnHound]

Isn't Kal Lake manmade anyway?

Natural lake AFAIK. It’s a marl lake, which gives it those crazy changing hues. There was a canal built between it and Wood Lk, but only the level of Wood Lk was noticeably influenced AFAIK

[m2711c]

you guys are confusing a river that is boatable with a river that is navigable in fact. if a river has ever been used for any type of commerce, then it is navigable in fact.

[Squirreljam]

The lake Missoula stuff is incredible, I’d never heard of it. When I hear glacial lake, it’s like oh, that’s nice, a place you could swim across - but reading through various wiki pages, the sheer scale is crazy. Lake Missoula at its max volume was the equivalent of half of Lake Michigan, then looking at flow rates when the ice dam burst, it draining in a few days! I can’t imagine what a flow rate of more than 10 cubic MILES! per HOUR would look like.

[Squirreljam]

Oh and Danno, I agree w adrenalated above, it’d be interesting to hear your take on the nyt/hcn/CO river access stories, you know more than most about CO water law

[tellybele]

https://books.google.com/books/about...d=s4y3c8fxeEwC

A good read on GLM if anyone is interested