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  1. #26
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    But, he's not wrong.
    We used to sell Atomic back in the day and the were beautifully finished skis! ^That up there should have never made it out of QC.

    Website says full sidewall construction. Should look more like theseClick image for larger version. 

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  2. #27
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    Are these gaps an issue?

    Never mind.
    Last edited by gaijin; 08-30-2022 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #28
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    Open your eyes maybe?

  4. #29
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    I mean yeah, hard area to get a good photo of, but you can see machined tail spacer instead of non filled in epoxy voids in the OP

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I disagree with the whole idea that only a small boutique brand with some guy wearing bro clothing can make good skis

    I don’t think it has anything to do with clothing they are wearing. Fairly stereotypical. Anyway. I worked in a premier race shop for a while and saw 60-70% atomics come across the bench. I ran tri-one on just about every single race ski that came through the door. You get very intimate with sidewall and edges and over all construction as you are staring at the smallest imperfections for hours. Rossignol is a very large brand, doesn’t beat Amer, but rossignol’s QC standards seem to be higher in recent years. Fischer as well.

    I can also tell you that smaller brands have a lot higher QC because they are not making nearly as many pairs and warranty replacement for dumb shit like that crushes companies. ON3P, moment, black crows, RMU, J Skis, 4Frnt and countless other non main stream brands take a lot more pride in their product as well, they aren’t creating product for 75% of the masses. They are targeting skiers that ski and appreciate quality.

    but ya. Fill them with epoxy and send it or take them back.

  6. #31
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    Those voids are on an interface with some abs inserts. They do not appear to be extensive. Its not the easiest bondline to maintain, and its hard to maintain laminate compression in an area like that - this is really much ado about nothing.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoVT Joey View Post
    I don’t think it has anything to do with clothing they are wearing. Fairly stereotypical. Anyway. I worked in a premier race shop for a while and saw 60-70% atomics come across the bench. I ran tri-one on just about every single race ski that came through the door. You get very intimate with sidewall and edges and over all construction as you are staring at the smallest imperfections for hours. Rossignol is a very large brand, doesn’t beat Amer, but rossignol’s QC standards seem to be higher in recent years. Fischer as well.

    I can also tell you that smaller brands have a lot higher QC because they are not making nearly as many pairs and warranty replacement for dumb shit like that crushes companies. ON3P, moment, black crows, RMU, J Skis, 4Frnt and countless other non main stream brands take a lot more pride in their product as well, they aren’t creating product for 75% of the masses. They are targeting skiers that ski and appreciate quality.

    but ya. Fill them with epoxy and send it or take them back.
    who hasn't seen the the vid the small manufacturer shows you of some bro building your ski ?

    While Atomic is hardly going to show fritz who likley doesnt ski, stuffing his face with sausages & chugging back beer in the atomic cafeteria

    making skis is just manufacturing a product

    I had one buddy give back a pair of free RMU and another want to use my bench to try and fix the bases on another pair of RMU during a ski trip so rough you could break yer wrist running over the base

    Big or small they all make mistakes and I think its all BS
    Last edited by XXX-er; 08-30-2022 at 09:36 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #33
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    So, I'm going to ask - for those saying in essence - "it's no big deal..."

    If you purchased these new, would you be happy?
    How about if all the armchair analysis means nothing, and in 24mos the topsheet delams. (And I'll even stipulate that you can just inject some epoxy in there [+rig up a jig and clamp it] and glue the topsheet down again. Yeah, it'll look janky, but it'll be fine.)

    Are all you "It's fine" people going to be just fine with that. How about if it's your wife/partner who doesn't like these now janky skis?!

    I'm really not trying to stir the pot, but I honestly can't believe you'll all be just fine with that.

    Sure, it's totally possible those skis will be just fine.
    But if they're not, then Atomic isn't going to warranty them 28mos from now, when they blow up.
    And Evo isn't going to want to take a bath either.

    So, the "it's fine" chant seems kind of nuts to me - I'm pretty sure you'd be as mad as hell about it.
    I can certainly say, massive cheapo that I am, I would *very definitely* NOT BE FINE WITH IT!

    So, you willing to gamble $500 or whatever these somewhat janky looking sticks are going to be fine?
    Wow.

  9. #34
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    nobody said that ^^ or at least i didnt

    just return them
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    nobody said that ^^ or at least i didnt
    just return them
    No you didn't exactly - but you're making the point that everyone's wound up about nothing.
    ...and if we're all wound up about nothing, then the next step in the logic tree is "why don't you keep them, then?"
    I mean it's just all a trivial aesthetic problem that won't cause any issue, ya pussies!

    And having had some first-hand experience with a ski (Mantra) that looked fine, but had an epoxy starved core that absolutely blew up way before it should have, I personally would be very wary of something that even remotely looked like a manufacturing problem.

    In the grand scheme of things, I (and likely, even you, drier-sheet and aqua-seal guy) would be just fine if we lost a $500 pair of skis unjustly. But it sure would piss me off. And I think that's what's setting SoVT off too.

    Big company doing a pretty crap job of QC. Perhaps they're fine, perhaps they're not. They are simply pumping out a ton of skis without a lot of care, bagging as much cash as possible. And when the inevitable happens and they do blow up, unfortunately they're probably way less likely to make it good than the boutique shop.

    (Not that I'm buying Boutique skis - but I'm not buying new Atomics either. Frankly I can't find a lot in their lineup that impresses me, so not a hard choice.)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westcoaster View Post
    Those voids are on an interface with some abs inserts. They do not appear to be extensive. Its not the easiest bondline to maintain, and its hard to maintain laminate compression in an area like that - this is really much ado about nothing.
    Yet, in my not so small quiver(+my brothers) I have 0 skis that look likethese

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    who hasn't seen the the vid the small manufacturer shows you of some bro building your ski ?

    While Atomic is hardly going to show fritz who likley doesnt ski, stuffing his face with sausages & chugging back beer in the atomic cafeteria

    making skis is just manufacturing a product

    I had one buddy give back a pair of free RMU and another want to use my bench to try and fix the bases on another pair of RMU during a ski trip so rough you could break yer wrist running over the base

    Big or small they all make mistakes and I think its all BS

    I guess you just proved my point. I would rather see a “bro” making my skis, he probably made the skis that he rides. And a bunch of his buddies skis. “Fritz” probably doesn’t ski, and probably really doesn’t give a shit, because he’s working off his hangover from the night before.

    so ya I guess that’s called marketing and it works, but it’s also employing people at companies that plan on retention and growth, a not just a useless cycle of fritz and his cousins fucking up skis.

    and your buddy should of tuned his skis instead of mounting them and running them out of the plastic. I also never said there wouldn’t be defects. I’ve sent back a pair of black crows on a blemish. I got a new pair. It happens.

    I guess it really comes down to my deep hate for Amer sports and them releasing a complete piece of shit binding right after dropping off in the QC department. And it’s not the same as marker. At least they recalled the kingpin, fixed them, and made it right. Shifts are still shifting to this day.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoVT Joey View Post
    I don’t think it has anything to do with clothing they are wearing. Fairly stereotypical. Anyway. I worked in a premier race shop for a while and saw 60-70% atomics come across the bench. I ran tri-one on just about every single race ski that came through the door. You get very intimate with sidewall and edges and over all construction as you are staring at the smallest imperfections for hours. Rossignol is a very large brand, doesn’t beat Amer, but rossignol’s QC standards seem to be higher in recent years. Fischer as well.

    I can also tell you that smaller brands have a lot higher QC because they are not making nearly as many pairs and warranty replacement for dumb shit like that crushes companies. ON3P, moment, black crows, RMU, J Skis, 4Frnt and countless other non main stream brands take a lot more pride in their product as well, they aren’t creating product for 75% of the masses. They are targeting skiers that ski and appreciate quality.

    but ya. Fill them with epoxy and send it or take them back.
    You really think that the foam-core skis from Hermann's day were better/better finished than what is being hand-made today? From my experience selling them, I wouldn't put money on that bet.

    You clearly have an axe to grind with anything Amer related (an opinion you're welcome to hold) but at least get right what else actually comes out of the Altenmarkt factory: Black Crows, Season Equipment, some Faction, Hagan, a lot of Kästle (pre Czech ownership), and don't forget that we built a sizeable portion of Fischer's alpine & nordic skis for a year after their main factory burnt to the ground during Covid. If Atomic/Amer was hell bent on greed and corporate domination why in the world would we step up & help out one of our major competitors, rather than watch them go under (which would have been quite easy to do)? There's far more love for skiing within the big brands than you think.

  14. #39
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    ^Fair points. So what would you recommend the OP do?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post
    ^Fair points. So what would you recommend the OP do?
    For starters, there is a 2-year warranty in place should anything happen due to manufacturing defects. That aside, he should (first) speak with the shop he bought them from and ask them to weigh in on it. After that, the local Atomic rep will do the same. And if the shop's return policy allows for straight up returns, then that option can be taken too. Only so much can be done with less-than-good pictures on the internet, so some stakeholder needs to see the ski and the first step is to speak with the shop he bought them from.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by onenerdykid View Post
    You really think that the foam-core skis from Hermann's day were better/better finished than what is being hand-made today? From my experience selling them, I wouldn't put money on that bet.

    You clearly have an axe to grind with anything Amer related (an opinion you're welcome to hold) but at least get right what else actually comes out of the Altenmarkt factory: Black Crows, Season Equipment, some Faction, Hagan, a lot of Kästle (pre Czech ownership), and don't forget that we built a sizeable portion of Fischer's alpine & nordic skis for a year after their main factory burnt to the ground during Covid. If Atomic/Amer was hell bent on greed and corporate domination why in the world would we step up & help out one of our major competitors, rather than watch them go under (which would have been quite easy to do)? There's far more love for skiing within the big brands than you think.
    Well, I know the Atomics from my shop days were wood core. Rossi and Dstar we're the only ones putting out foam cores in the upper end skis and I fixed a ton of those POS! Then came Soli's monocoque.
    Curious on your thoughts of this making it through QC(yeah,internet pictures). Or, in other words. Would you be stoked on this purchase if they were yours?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    No you didn't exactly - but you're making the point that everyone's wound up about nothing.
    ...and if we're all wound up about nothing, then the next step in the logic tree is "why don't you keep them, then?"
    I mean it's just all a trivial aesthetic problem that won't cause any issue, ya pussies!

    And having had some first-hand experience with a ski (Mantra) that looked fine, but had an epoxy starved core that absolutely blew up way before it should have, I personally would be very wary of something that even remotely looked like a manufacturing problem.

    In the grand scheme of things, I (and likely, even you, drier-sheet and aqua-seal guy) would be just fine if we lost a $500 pair of skis unjustly. But it sure would piss me off. And I think that's what's setting SoVT off too.

    Big company doing a pretty crap job of QC. Perhaps they're fine, perhaps they're not. They are simply pumping out a ton of skis without a lot of care, bagging as much cash as possible. And when the inevitable happens and they do blow up, unfortunately they're probably way less likely to make it good than the boutique shop.

    (Not that I'm buying Boutique skis - but I'm not buying new Atomics either. Frankly I can't find a lot in their lineup that impresses me, so not a hard choice.)

    " I disagree with the whole idea that only a small boutique brand with some guy wearing bro clothing can make good skis "

    this ^^ is all I said, I was disagreeing with the idea a boutique can make better skis than a big factory and they are BIG

    I didnt say buddy was wound up about nothing, I made no comment on if buddy should keep the ski cuz i don't know and mostly I wonder how that ski made it thru inspection in the factory ?

    A local guy was making 1 pair of boutique skis a day and he rattled on about how his process had changed and refined to be more and more like the manufacturing process at the big outfits without the volume obviously


    In closing its probably much better you sew your gear together with dental floss & bathtub sealer than use my repair methods
    Last edited by XXX-er; 08-31-2022 at 10:48 AM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #43
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    At the very least I would go to the shop, note your concerns, and if something happens you have some proof you were actually "just skiing along" when they went bad. Evo is a solid shop, and is now a pretty big shop, so I imagine that they would just swap them for you and warranty them with Atomic.

    When I worked at 4FRNT, we made the Renegades in house, and the rest of the skis were made at Elan. I can say without hesitation that while both production methods had their good skis and bad skis, the Elan skis were generally more consistent than the ones we made in house. Automation does wonders for that sort of thing. The Atomic factory is just as good, if not better than the Elan factory.

    That was of course a decade ago now, and some of the brands that do all in-house production are certainly more dialed than we were back then, so I'm certainly not trying to speak for the quality of anyone's products either way. Just a single data point to consider.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    At the very least I would go to the shop, note your concerns, and if something happens you have some proof you were actually "just skiing along" when they went bad. Evo is a solid shop, and is now a pretty big shop, so I imagine that they would just swap them for you and warranty them with Atomic.

    When I worked at 4FRNT, we made the Renegades in house, and the rest of the skis were made at Elan. I can say without hesitation that while both production methods had their good skis and bad skis, the Elan skis were generally more consistent than the ones we made in house. Automation does wonders for that sort of thing. The Atomic factory is just as good, if not better than the Elan factory.

    That was of course a decade ago now, and some of the brands that do all in-house production are certainly more dialed than we were back then, so I'm certainly not trying to speak for the quality of anyone's products either way. Just a single data point to consider.
    I bought some EHP's(Elan)as a walk in there. Those(my pair) were some disappointingly built skis!

  20. #45
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  21. #46
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    Fuck yeah it is!
    Loved those skis!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    When I worked at 4FRNT, we made the Renegades in house, and the rest of the skis were made at Elan.
    Did you build #845 2013 Owl, 186? Because the core is still perfect and one of my all-time favorite builds. Wall to wall maple. No sidewalls. Long, consistent reverse camber. Probably the greatest ski I have ever owned ride-wise. I heard people had trouble with the tails delaminating. But not me. From first turn, I knew I'd own that ski for the rest of my life. It's holding up so far. But then again I only ski perfect snow in a forest. I've hit like one rock in its life.

  23. #48
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    Awesome. I was just the marketing dork, but some of the Rens from the first three years had my hands on them at some point. I was mostly on sidewall branding and shrink wrap duty which is why yours have held up as well as they did.

  24. #49
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    Awesome. Always loved the sidecore branding. ;-) Good work, homie.

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