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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    First hand evidence that trump and meadows knew that (his) armed people he encouraged were marching to and eventually had broken into the Capitol and did nothing to stop it for nearly 4 hours.
    Could someone please direct me to the list of knives and firearms recovered at the Capitol by police that day?

    I’m not defending those imbeciles but lots of strong language and I honestly haven’t seen any evidence of “real weapons” just flag poles and bad breath.

    Sorry I just watched 15 minutes of cnn on a flight.


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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Nixon proposed universal healthcare. Nixon opened the door to China trade. Nixon took the US off the gold standard.
    He was basically the last reasonable Republican. Which really says something about what a cesspool the Republican Party is and has been

  3. #53
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    Thread title didn’t propose that Watergate was equivalent to Jan 6. I was pointing out that as sentient adults we should be able to discuss Covid response or Ukraine invasion or other major news events despite the politics involved.

    The false elector slates, which came in contingent and also in straightforward fraud flavors, do not constitute a traditional coup but can anyone argue they don’t undermine democracy?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Thread title didn’t propose that Watergate was equivalent to Jan 6. I was pointing out that as sentient adults we should be able to discuss Covid response or Ukraine invasion or other major news events despite the politics involved.

    The false elector slates, which came in contingent and also in straightforward fraud flavors, do not constitute a traditional coup but can anyone argue they don’t undermine democracy?
    Most coups need some kind of cover. This was theirs. That some people were so delusional as to actually believe their cover story doesn't change the nature of the overall conspiracy.

    For cono, weapons discussion starts around 1 hour. Watching earlier parts may save you some time arguing nonsense:

    https://youtu.be/bC3_VFFJlSY

  5. #55
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    Not here- it would be over in the Poly threads...

  6. #56
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    None of this was a traditional coup. Trump's replacement of Defense Sec and Pentagon officials was somewhat related to the usual "coup" definitions.

    A distinguishing factor is the number of levers used to stay in power, from media manipulation, through the 62 lost court challenges, pressuring state election officials and governors to throw out or discover votes among other federal meddling with state functions, DOJ manipulation and coordination with domestic terrorist organizations. When one mechanism failed, another was already in motion .
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  7. #57
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    When Watergate happened I was in the 3rd grade. I remember my teacher Mrs. Montgomery discussing it with us. Explaining what happened and how it was wrong etc. etc. She was pretty fired up about it.

    She was the only black teacher in my lily white Seattle public school (only other black employees were two playground matrons). I always thought she was very hip and cool.

    Wonder how many 3rd grade teachers discussed Jan. 6th with their students.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


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  8. #58
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    How about the involvement of ex-military - does that get us over the coup line?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB View Post
    How about the involvement of ex-military - does that get us over the coup line?
    There was active there too, I bet.

    Also, a off duty dea agent who was armed. Don’t know how they charged him, I know a lot of feds and they carry everywhere. Planes, ball games etc.


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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    Could someone please direct me to the list of knives and firearms recovered at the Capitol by police that day?

    I’m not defending those imbeciles but lots of strong language and I honestly haven’t seen any evidence of “real weapons” just flag poles and bad breath.

    Sorry I just watched 15 minutes of cnn on a flight.


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    I heard "armed" in the testimony. I don't recall hearing "firearms", not they weren't present.

    ETA: read this https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/97787...-say-they-used
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    I heard "armed" in the testimony. I don't recall hearing "firearms", not they weren't present.
    Here are two, I know there were some others shown in pictures and videos. Including the dea agent who took pictures with his gun and badge. Name:  FU_WF-kWIAENZbO.jpeg
Views: 262
Size:  89.8 KBName:  FU_fbLWX0AEE772.jpeg
Views: 270
Size:  80.1 KB

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    Here are two, I know there were some others shown in pictures and videos. Including the dea agent who took pictures with his gun and badge. Name:  FU_WF-kWIAENZbO.jpeg
Views: 262
Size:  89.8 KBName:  FU_fbLWX0AEE772.jpeg
Views: 270
Size:  80.1 KB
    Agreed...I'm not sure where CE is going with that line of reasoning...is it NBD because no firearms? not that that is the case...but if that's what he's arguing I disagree.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    Could someone please direct me to the list of knives and firearms recovered at the Capitol by police that day?

    I’m not defending those imbeciles but lots of strong language and I honestly haven’t seen any evidence of “real weapons” just flag poles and bad breath.

    Sorry I just watched 15 minutes of cnn on a flight.


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    The way I understood the testimony yesterday, the armed protesters did not want to go through the metal detectors ("magnetizers"?) and have their weapons confiscated, so they mostly stayed outside the rally/speech area, and they were not able to march on the Capitol because of this barrier. Trump was reportedly screaming for the "mags" be taken away or disabled so the armed protestors could join the march on the Capitol. "Take the f'ing mags away!" he said repeatedly. Witnesses said lots of guns were present among those who did not go through the metal detectors, from AR-15s to handguns, etc. So if Trump had gotten what he wanted, lots of guns would have been present at the Capitol, but fortunately none or almost none were there. If I'm misunderstanding the testimony somebody please clarify.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    The way I understood the testimony yesterday, the armed protesters did not want to go through the metal detectors ("magnetizers"?) and have their weapons confiscated, so they mostly stayed outside the rally/speech area, and they were not able to march on the Capitol because of this barrier. Trump was reportedly screaming for the "mags" be taken away or disabled so the armed protestors could join the march on the Capitol. "Take the f'ing mags away!" he said repeatedly. Witnesses said lots of guns were present among those who did not go through the metal detectors, from AR-15s to handguns, etc. So if Trump had gotten what he wanted, lots of guns would have been present at the Capitol, but fortunately none or almost none were there. If I'm misunderstanding the testimony somebody please clarify.
    What would stop them from marching from outside the ellipse to the capitol in that case? It's a long-ass way.

    He wanted them inside the ellipse rally so that his crowd could appear larger, like he always wants. "Let them in. They're not here to hurt me."

    There's no reason to believe that the people not allowed inside the rally didn't eventually make their way to the capitol riot. Fortunately they're a bunch of larping cowards who don't actually want to use their guns.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
    What would stop them from marching from outside the ellipse to the capitol in that case? It's a long-ass way.

    He wanted them inside the ellipse rally so that his crowd could appear larger, like he always wants. "Let them in. They're not here to hurt me."

    There's no reason to believe that the people not allowed inside the rally didn't eventually make their way to the capitol riot. Fortunately they're a bunch of larping cowards who don't actually want to use their guns.
    The ellipse to the capitol is about two miles, almost entirely flat except for a slight hill (barely enough to generate momentum on skis) at the end. It’s not that far

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    The ellipse to the capitol is about two miles, almost entirely flat except for a slight hill (barely enough to generate momentum on skis) at the end. It’s not that far
    It's far if you're trying to prevent people from outside of a rally from going there along with the people inside the rally.

  17. #67
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    The glaring weak spots in the hearings are the state level bureaucrats that certify the results.
    I think that is where the next breach in democracy will happen.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    When Watergate happened I was in the 3rd grade. I remember my teacher Mrs. Montgomery discussing it with us. Explaining what happened and how it was wrong etc. etc. She was pretty fired up about it.

    She was the only black teacher in my lily white Seattle public school (only other black employees were two playground matrons). I always thought she was very hip and cool.

    Wonder how many 3rd grade teachers discussed Jan. 6th with their students.
    I don't know about that, but I did have a kindergarten teacher who taught us to say the pledge of allegiance without the words "under god". I don't remember exactly what she said but she did tell us about the words and that we didn't need to say them. I still don't. This was in 1955, a year after those words were added to the pledge, during the height of anti-communist hysteria. We were also given plans for fallout shelters to take home to our dads. (My dad once tried to make a birdhouse with me, without success.) And we had air raid drills--but we were lucky, we didn't have to crawl under our desks; we had a nice asbestos-covered-pipe-filled basement to go to.

    Frankly I think the political climate in the US now is worse than it was then, although of course I was too young then to understand things. Communism, at least the Soviet imperialist variety (which was preceded by czarist imperialism and succeeded by Putinism), was a legitimate if overestimated threat. Unlike Democratic pedophile rings and Jewish space lasers. And the anti-communists had a lot fewer guns then the right has now.

  19. #69
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    i was born in 71 so watergate was a historical touchstone before I had any knowledge of it

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Frankly I think the political climate in the US now is worse than it was then, although of course I was too young then to understand things. Communism, at least the Soviet imperialist variety (which was preceded by czarist imperialism and succeeded by Putinism), was a legitimate if overestimated threat. Unlike Democratic pedophile rings and Jewish space lasers. And the anti-communists had a lot fewer guns then the right has now.
    this is consistent from what i read about it

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
    It's far if you're trying to prevent people from outside of a rally from going there along with the people inside the rally.
    I guess? There aren’t huge ways to enter that area en masse though from memory. One takeaway is there weren’t enough people. Another takeaway is that the insurrectionists thought they needed the presence of the president to urge on the coup, and the president wanted to urge them on.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    I guess? There aren’t huge ways to enter that area en masse though from memory. One takeaway is there weren’t enough people. Another takeaway is that the insurrectionists thought they needed the presence of the president to urge on the coup, and the president wanted to urge them on.
    Why would it matter if they were inside the Trump rally security perimeter vs. walking up to the capitol as directed by Trump? Sure, some of his supporters didn't go into the secured perimeter because they wanted to be sure to keep their weapons. Once the directive was given to march on the capitol, people inside the security perimeter and outside it marched up to the capitol. Paulster2626 seems to think that the Trump admin security screened all people in DC for the march on the capitol that day and that's just not the case...it's at best inaccurate and it's definitely misleading to characterize it that way IMO.

    The revisionist history is driving me a little crazy. One claim I've seen often is it was a small group of protestors. This is a pretty big group of people (see photo). At least 2,000 people made it inside the Capitol Building...and obviously many more were outside.

    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    The way I understood the testimony yesterday, the armed protesters did not want to go through the metal detectors ("magnetizers"?) and have their weapons confiscated, so they mostly stayed outside the rally/speech area, and they were not able to march on the Capitol because of this barrier. Trump was reportedly screaming for the "mags" be taken away or disabled so the armed protestors could join the march on the Capitol. "Take the f'ing mags away!" he said repeatedly. Witnesses said lots of guns were present among those who did not go through the metal detectors, from AR-15s to handguns, etc. So if Trump had gotten what he wanted, lots of guns would have been present at the Capitol, but fortunately none or almost none were there. If I'm misunderstanding the testimony somebody please clarify.
    Thanks, I interpreted it the same way.

    So, we see pictures of these “militia” types, with flak vest and AR-15’s at rally’s around the country, and I feel that’s the image we’re being sold, but I’ve not seen one picture of one gravy seal, with a long gun, not even outside. Aside from the guy arrested with the shit in his trunk.


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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    Thanks, I interpreted it the same way.

    So, we see pictures of these “militia” types, with flak vest and AR-15’s at rally’s around the country, and I feel that’s the image we’re being sold, but I’ve not seen one picture of one gravy seal, with a long gun, not even outside. Aside from the guy arrested with the shit in his trunk.


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    If you read that piece from NPR it lists more folks that were found with guns. Again, I don't know the point you're trying to make...can you elaborate? Is it that the insurrection was a nothingburger because only a few people were found with guns?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  24. #74
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    Would we have discussed Watergate hearings here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    If you read that piece from NPR it lists more folks that were found with guns. Again, I don't know the point you're trying to make...can you elaborate? Is it that the insurrection was a nothingburger because only a few people were found with guns?
    No man, I think those people should be tried and hanged. I think Trump should never be permitted to run for public office again. Repeat.

    I just don’t get why people have to try soo hard. Or exaggerate, First you don’t have to, the guys an idiot all on his own. Second It’s been that way from the beginning, it turns people off, telling people what the definition of an “armed insurrection” is, it insults people. And it doesn’t matter, it was at the very least unbecoming of his office.

    But I know that is not enough for some of you. We’ve got to March lock step with you, or we’re shamed, insulted, cast out. That’s partly why we’re so fucked. It’s never enough for you guys, it has to be your play, you wrote the script, write the definitions, irrespective of anyone else’s opinion, interpretation, or experience.

    Guess what happens when you tell people how it is going to be all the time? They tell you to fuck off.






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    What would you call it?

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