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  1. #1
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    Mammoth vs Alpine/Squaw Pres Day weekend...

    Which one is more of a shitshow over President's Day weekend? Mammoth Mountain or Squaw/Alpine? I know the answer is 'both are horrible'. But for various reasons we are planning a multi-family trip next season to one of those locations. I've skied both numerous times but have never had the 'pleasure' over a holiday weekend. thanks.

  2. #2
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    So, if both or horrible, which would you consider the better resort if the crowds cancel each other out? Are there other factors e.g. a sub-average precipitation season aka the new normal, that come into play? How about infrastructure clusterfuck potential? I've got more worms if you need 'em.

  3. #3
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    Best advice is to change the weekend you visit. Both will be painful.

    If the sun is out and it is a “good” snow season Mammoth will be slightly more of a shitshow on mountain. Like a 11.1/10 vs 11/10 shitshow.

    Getting around Truckee/Tahoe during a holiday weekend will be worse than getting around Mammoth Lakes. If it snows and they close 80 it will be a grade AAA clusterfuck in Truckee.

    Both the Truckee Safeway and the Mammoth Vons will be out of bananas, white bread, eggs, and milk. Guaranteed.


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  4. #4
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    I've only been at Mammoth Presidents Day through the week. Never on the Saturday/ Sunday.

    But, if you can get lodging walking distance to Eagle Base, and are willing to start your day at 8:30 when they open, access is super easy. I've never seen a line on Chair 22 and Chair 25 on a sunny non powder day. Like ski right onto the lift. And both offer up terrain from fun long cruisers to tight and steep. With a basic game plan of avoiding the Mill mid day, we've only ever waited in a few lines (usually at Face Lift and High Five as we were working our way across the mountain).

    Alpine is fun and I've skied it on a busy mid winter weekend and it is not so horrible if you can ride lifts other than Summit and work your way around the hill depending on crowds. Palisades is a tough hill to negotiate when crowded. Unless Silverado is running and it is not a powder day and you just lap that. Or play around Snowking. KT is fun, but usually has a line when worth skiing.

    Mammoth is like skiing the top of a huge ball and runs head away from each other. Palisades is like skiing the bottom half of a funnel and all the lines converge and creat a shit show when too crowded. Alpine is a mid sized hill with two peaks and you can kill time hiking if the corrals look too full.

    Driving around Truckee on that weekend is gonna suck. Mammoth has a great shuttle system. If you can't walk to Eagle, get a condo along the Green Line and head out early.

  5. #5
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    Like Ottime says, Mammoth is a better choice. +1 to everything he says, and also some other factors to consider:

    There isn't much lodging in the immediate area around Alpine/Palisades, and traffic will be brutal coming into the resorts from Tahoe City/Truckee/other nearby towns. Meanwhile Mammoth has a solid shuttle system with many access points into the resort and lots of lodging near the base of the mountain.

    I haven't skied Alpine, but Palisades doesn't have much intermediate terrain which might be nice for families. Its mostly flat groomers, which will be very crowded, and expert terrain. Mammoth has tons of everything, and you can find uncrowded runs in the corners of the resort.

  6. #6
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    Mammoth for sure. I leave Truckee on President's Day weekend and get the hell out of there... it's a fucking shit show on a whole other level just trying to get anywhere.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  7. #7
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    It’s all over for both areas if it is a big stormy weekend. If it’s crazy stormy in mammoth and you are willing/able to leave town, at least you can explore lower elevation zones near bishop and there’s June mtn.

  8. #8
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    Counter-point: Skiing President's day weekend has been almost enjoyable the past few years due to ikon blackout dates and apparently most people getting the base pass. As mentioned above everything else still has the possibility to suck especially if there is a storm.

  9. #9
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    ^^^ that is a good point….


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  10. #10
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    If you do decide to ski Palisades stay at the base if you can afford it. Traffic will be a much bigger problem than crowds on the hill. The Olympic-Alpine gondola will probably be open by then. What the impact will be remains to be seen.

  11. #11
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    Why the hell is this in Tech Talk?
    "Poop is funny" - Frank Reynolds

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by davjr96 View Post
    Counter-point: Skiing President's day weekend has been almost enjoyable the past few years due to ikon blackout dates and apparently most people getting the base pass. As mentioned above everything else still has the possibility to suck especially if there is a storm.
    This.

    Along as lifts are open, Mammoth has been downright lovely the last couple years since the advent of the base/premium pass. The weekend before/after have become the crowded ones.

    I think generally speaking, unless most lifts get shut down by our somewhat constant wind, Mammoth is easier to manage. Multiple base areas, shuttle bus, fewer constructions on the hill and surrounding roads.

    Just avoid The Mill from 10 till noon, and don't drive down from Main after 3pmish and it will be fine.

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  13. #13
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    A few other points. And I lean heavily toward Mammoth.

    If you have intermediates in the group, Palisades will suck. There is really no good intermediate skiing there, other than two groomers off Snowking and the super super crowded Shirley Lake and a few lines down Siberia. Everything else is a freeway.

    Alpine is super fun for an intermediate. Plenty of options.

    Mammoth is even better offering super long runs. While Cloud Nine sometimes will have a group in the corral, it is much more like queuing up to get on the lift. Often it is ski right on, and it offers 1600' of cruisers and easy black terrain. A bit of a traverse gets you into some moderate steeps.

    Palisades has a great beginner area at the top of the Tram when the weather is good. Mammoth has three high speed lifts that service primarily green terrain. Alpine has a spot near the parking lot.

    If you go to Mammoth, and the winds really kick up, there is always June Mountain about 25 minutes away. Last Presidents Day was a wind storm of magnitude that only Eagle Express and Chair 8 opened and not until after noon. We drove up to June. Waited 20 minutes to go up J1, and then skied right onto upper mountain lifts all day enjoying wind buffed slopes. June has amazing views and can certainly entertain for a day.


    And yes, avoid the Mill. We usually avoid it until 1:30, as there can still can be an after lunch crowd. But really, there is no need to head down that way.

  14. #14
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    thanks everyone. I've skied at Palisades/Alpine a lot and Mammoth a few times so am familiar with the terrain, thankfully our 3 family group are all reasonably competent including kids so don't need to lean towards beginner friendly hills. Great point about IKON blackout effects.

    The 3rd place now in the mix is Kirkwood. We're very familiar with the hill and are thinking it might be "slightly" less crowded for the pres day weekend period, definitely so for the days leading up to the weekend as its not exactly a 'destination' resort.

    Sorry in advance to all Tahoe area mags for jinxing the shit out of the conditions for pres day week.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfconroy View Post
    Why the hell is this in Tech Talk?
    aren't you supposed to be touring or something?

  16. #16
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    Kirkwood will be empty on the blackout days. Like ski right on to every lift. Unless it is a powder day. But still, pretty empty.

    Most BA folks have Tahoe Pass, which is blackout. KW Only Pass or Epic Pass. The KW Only folks will be there, but rarely do people on Epic bother traveling out there. We have learned to love love love blackout periods at KW. Best days of the year typically.

    If you decide on KW, get a place in valley. Driving from South Lake for vacation would suck. The in valley shuttle sucked balls bigger than ever last season. Our friends who have a place in valley, and have stuck it out with that shuttle for years finally gave up last season. Drive over to Timber Creek at 8:40, park by the snowcat road. You walk up hill 75', ski over to chair 7 and can ski right back to the car.

    KW will be busier on Presidents Day, when the blackout lifts. If the lifts are all running, that means park a few minutes earlier. There may occasionally be some merging on chair 6 early and up to 8 minute wait for chair 4 between 11am and noon. The hill itself never really gets crowded at all. Unless conditions have everyone skiing on groomers (there has been a few spells like that the past two winters), then Zach's and Sentinel can get a little busy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by davjr96 View Post
    Counter-point: Skiing President's day weekend has been almost enjoyable the past few years due to ikon blackout dates and apparently most people getting the base pass. As mentioned above everything else still has the possibility to suck especially if there is a storm.
    Definitely this with Mammoth.

    I was not there on Pres. weekend this year, but honestly the last few have really not been all that bad. Since so many people get base Ikon passes the crowds are not nearly what you would expect. That has been my experience anyway.

    The weekends on either side of the big weekends are often bad now, as people with the base pass will come up on those, knowing they won't use it on pres. weekend/MLK.

    This has been an interesting change. The last MLK/Pres. that I remember being really bad was 2017.

    I'm not saying it will be empty, but the fact that so many socal people get the base Ikon has changed the dynamics a bit. I don't know if that rend will continue. For the last few years we have been going on the big weekends and it has not been a problem.

    Mammoth does have a great shuttle system. If you are going at any time from mid-December through the end of February I always advise people to use the shuttle. Honestly, I have had some years where I did not drive to the mountain from early December until late April.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


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  18. #18
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    Field colors splunk

    how to make charting.fieldcolors permanent in splunk default. I need to place charting.chart.fieldcolors in splunk XML for every dashboard can we have it as default without manually inserting by making changes in CS

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post

    If you have intermediates in the group, Palisades will suck. There is really no good intermediate skiing there, other than two groomers off Snowking and the super super crowded Shirley Lake and a few lines down Siberia. Everything else is a freeway.

    Alpine is super fun for an intermediate. Plenty of options.


    Palisades has a great beginner area at the top of the Tram when the weather is good. Mammoth has three high speed lifts that service primarily green terrain. Alpine has a spot near the parking lot.
    It's funny you mention this. I never thought about this while I lived and worked there, but that is true. There is really not all THAT much intermediate terrain. There were cruisers off of Gold Coast, and obviously Shirley, and Red Dog and the Squaw Creek area have some intermediate stuff, but lots of the intermediate terrain is more in the form of connecting runs rather than true intermediate slopes.

    When I was teaching there they used to love to talk about how the High Camp beginner zone was high enough up that it allowed beginners to experience high alpine skiing. The problem with this is that it is critical to tell beginners to take the tram down. I always did that. If they try to ski down at the end of the day they will be on the mountain run, which gets very congested with different ability levels. Lots of beginners freak out on that run. On crowded days they would sometimes let us ski all morning if we agreed to put on the red jacket and stand at the slow signs telling people to slow down all afternoon. I used to get flipped off all the time doing that, sometimes by people I knew who didn't recognize me.

    Some of the stuff I used to think of as intermediate terrain, the groomers off of Granite and the Saddle for instance, is really not.

    My first winter, when I lived in Olympic Valley, I would sometimes be working until 8 pm in the shop. You could get out, and do a lap or two of night skiing. That was fun, you get off the tram and then just bomb down the mountain run under the lights.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long duc dong View Post
    It's funny you mention this. I never thought about this while I lived and worked there, but that is true. There is really not all THAT much intermediate terrain. There were cruisers off of Gold Coast, and obviously Shirley, and Red Dog and the Squaw Creek area have some intermediate stuff, but lots of the intermediate terrain is more in the form of connecting runs rather than true intermediate slopes.

    When I was teaching there they used to love to talk about how the High Camp beginner zone was high enough up that it allowed beginners to experience high alpine skiing. The problem with this is that it is critical to tell beginners to take the tram down. I always did that. If they try to ski down at the end of the day they will be on the mountain run, which gets very congested with different ability levels. Lots of beginners freak out on that run. On crowded days they would sometimes let us ski all morning if we agreed to put on the red jacket and stand at the slow signs telling people to slow down all afternoon. I used to get flipped off all the time doing that, sometimes by people I knew who didn't recognize me.

    Some of the stuff I used to think of as intermediate terrain, the groomers off of Granite and the Saddle for instance, is really not.

    My first winter, when I lived in Olympic Valley, I would sometimes be working until 8 pm in the shop. You could get out, and do a lap or two of night skiing. That was fun, you get off the tram and then just bomb down the mountain run under the lights.
    Night skiing.... Wouldn't that be rad to bring back?!?

    I keep hearing how good the blackout days are. I usually take advantage of those days to get out on the sled. Getting near Truckee on any holiday is a junkshow. Heck, any decent snow day has 89 backed up onto the freeway.

    I don't ride Squaw on the weekends except spring, so there's that... Too many people and I hate lift lines with a passion. KW could be a killer option. Mammoth as a backup plan. Alpine/Squaw should be a package deal next year with the new tram. I'm curious to see how that plays. I'm sure it'll be busy at first as people's curiosity is piqued. I bet it slows after that.

    I'd tell you where I'd ski, but then I'd have to kill you...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowMachine View Post
    Night skiing.... Wouldn't that be rad to bring back?!?

    I keep hearing how good the blackout days are. I usually take advantage of those days to get out on the sled. Getting near Truckee on any holiday is a junkshow. Heck, any decent snow day has 89 backed up onto the freeway.

    I don't ride Squaw on the weekends except spring, so there's that... Too many people and I hate lift lines with a passion. KW could be a killer option. Mammoth as a backup plan. Alpine/Squaw should be a package deal next year with the new tram. I'm curious to see how that plays. I'm sure it'll be busy at first as people's curiosity is piqued. I bet it slows after that.

    I'd tell you where I'd ski, but then I'd have to kill you...
    Night skiing was REALLY fun!!

    I hear lots of the same stuff about Squaw from people I lived with who stayed or became Bay weekenders. When I was there a full pass was roughly 1200 if you bought it before July. After that it went up to around 1600. Some of the people I knew who were part-time instructors lived in SF and came up on weekends and taught just to get the pass.

    With the Ikon I don't see that happening anymore. My guess is that those people would just buy the pass and not have to deal with showing up for a couple of lineups and occasionally teaching a lesson.

    Lots of the other bay weekenders I knew back then got passes at Alpine or Sugar Bowl. In fact, I think there was a combined pass for a while there.

    I have a cousin who is a pathologist in Palo Alto who always bought a full Squaw pass back then. He went up at least 3 weekends a month and always took a full month off in the winter, so he typically got 50-60 days a year at Squaw. He skied enough that such a pass was worth it. For weekenders who got 20-30 days a year it was too much, lots of them went to Alpine/Sugar.

    Most of what I have heard about Squaw is that it is almost untenable on big weekends now. The high season pass prices used to help keep people out. From what I gather that is not the case anymore. That sucks. I have not been in a few years and I don't get to go back much so I'm out of the loop.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  22. #22
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    I would choose Mammoth if for no other reason then to avoid Tahoe traffic. The drive out of LA can easily.be timed to miss it, and once out of LA there is no traffic issues at all. Bay area/Tahoe? Not so much.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

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