Upgrades to my 2019 pike rct3

[frorider]

It’s been a good fork, ended up dropping it to 130 mm travel last year for my Hei Hei CR build. Has the original charger 2.0 damper which does ok but seems to pack up a bit on hi speed chatter.

Was all set to get the tuned Avalanche damper but it’s jumped from $245 to $400. Since this fork will get replaced once there’s a better 130 option on the market, I don’t want to spend much.

Ideas?

[scrublover]

It’s been a good fork, ended up dropping it to 130 mm travel last year for my Hei Hei CR build. Has the original charger 2.0 damper which does ok but seems to pack up a bit on hi speed chatter.

Was all set to get the tuned Avalanche damper but it’s jumped from $245 to $400. Since this fork will get replaced once there’s a better 130 option on the market, I don’t want to spend much.

Ideas?

keep riding it, save more pennies, sell it and get one of the new versions?

[ticketchecker]

I have a similar vintage pike, had a debonair damper put in last time I had it serviced. Can I tell the difference? Not really

x2 on Scrub's advice

[radam]

DSD Runt maybe? I have zero personal experience but it seems like everyone that has done the upgrade loves it.

[frorider]

When I dropped travel to 130, I bought the 2021 air spring, and it seems about right in terms of combining enough sagged support and the right stroke on a bigger hit. It’s a damping issue on high frequency medium sized chunky chatter that I’m feeling.

[Wes Mantooth]

I have a 2020 Pike Select and just put a Runt in it and it's def an improvement. Similar dilemma of how much money I wanted to put into a fork that isn't very high end (I don't even have the 2 or 2.1 damper) so I found a used Runt for cheap and the performance is better for sure. Still figuring out the perfect pressures but it was an improvement right off the bat and I basically never bottom it out anymore whereas pre-Runt I would bottom out a lot even with 3-4 tokens in it

From my experience the more I pay attention to my suspension the less satisfied I become with what I have. You pay a bunch for some new upgrade that feels amazing at first and then you get used to it and start obsessing over the next thing you could do. I guess that's the story of bikes in general though

[Wes Mantooth]

When I dropped travel to 130, I bought the 2021 air spring, and it seems about right in terms of combining enough sagged support and the right stroke on a bigger hit. It’s a damping issue on high frequency medium sized chunky chatter that I’m feeling.

Posted my response before I saw this - you could also consider the Push HC97 if you're looking for better damping vs better support

[ticketchecker]

You pay a bunch for some new upgrade that feels amazing at first and then you get used to it and start obsessing over the next thing you could do. I guess that's the story of bikes in general though

Is that why I'm looking at new shocks for the bike I just got last year?

[frorider]

Posted my response before I saw this - you could also consider the Push HC97 if you're looking for better damping vs better support

Thx, I had forgotten about that HC97. I think I’ll go for it.

[frorider]

Diaz has sold out of the Runt but they’ve been super helpful and I think I’ll send my charger 2.0 damper in for them to modify.

Unless anyone has a used charger damper I could buy & send to them to avoid bike downtime.

There’s so much conspicuous consumption in bike land that I try to upgrade rather than replace with the new shiny thing every year.

[adrenalated]

OK I'm going to piggyback off this thread.

My Optic came with a 2020 Pike Select+ RC (140mm, 29", 42mm offset). Overall I think it rides fine, but I do feel like the front of the bike is the limiting factor rather than the rear suspension - the Super Deluxe on the back is GREAT and makes the bike way more capable than than it should be for 125mm. I feel like the front end gets deflected in chunky terrain well before the back starts to run out of capability.

What I DON'T want is to make the significantly heavier. I already have a heavy bike.

Get some volume tokens and play with settings? Select+ only has rebound and LSC adjustments.

Some sort of aftermarket product for the existing fork?

New fork? If so what? Weight specs are actually kinda hard to find for some forks.

Wheels instead of fork?

[carlh]

My lyric rc is much better with the addition of a runt but the damper is still the limiting factor

[HAB]

So the Select+ has essentially the same damper as the Ultimate, just without the HSC adjuster. The Select is an entirely different design and quite a bit shittier. You should be able to get the Select+ feeling pretty good.

When you say that the front gets "deflected" are you talking about the fork flexing and the steering feeling imprecise, or something more to do with suspension performance?

[adrenalated]

When you say that the front gets "deflected" are you talking about the fork flexing and the steering feeling imprecise, or something more to do with suspension performance?

Unable to hold a line through chunk. Getting bounced off in a direction other than that which I intend to go. I'm too dumb to identify more specifically why.
My Patrol (170mm Fox 36 Grip2, carbon wheels) holds a line in chunk much better. Which it should given more travel, stiffer wheels, larger diameter fork, etc., but it also feels more balanced front to rear.

[N1CK.]

OK I'm going to piggyback off this thread.

what air spring is in there? I'd start with the air spring if it can be improved.

[adrenalated]

what air spring is in there? I'd start with the air spring if it can be improved.

Great question, RockShox nomenclature is confusing. It's a 2021 fork and I think it's a DebonAir spring and Charger 2.1 RC damper. It appears that the current model Pike is updated but no idea if the new spring/damper can be dropped in the old fork?

[N1CK.]

Great question, RockShox nomenclature is confusing. It's a 2021 fork and I think it's a DebonAir spring and Charger 2.1 RC damper. It appears that the current model Pike is updated but no idea if the new spring/damper can be dropped in the old fork?

I thought you said it was a 2020 Pike Select+ RC. No? Yes?

[dcpnz]

I just found out about the Rockshox Trailhead web app - pretty useful to plug in your serial number to figure out exactly what you have as well as get starting point recommendation on settings

https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/search/

[adrenalated]

I thought you said it was a 2020 Pike Select+ RC. No? Yes?

I just found out about the Rockshox Trailhead web app - pretty useful to plug in your serial number to figure out exactly what you have as well as get starting point recommendation on settings

https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/search/

Here's what that site says:



(I did say 2020 originally but I was off a year. Bike is 2021 so I assume the fork is too)

For setup, I'm running what Norco recommends, which appears to be MUCH lower pressure than Rock Shox recommends on that site.

[HAB]

Norco's recommended setup for a Zeb on the Range was insanely soft and terrible for me too. Try the RS baseline and report back.

[Eluder]

A pike at 140 (the max they should be IMO) just isn't a fair comparison to a 38. Its never gonna be close. I realize you probably get this though.

You need to consider all the factors that affect your bike being deflected, the first is the the overall mass of the machine. I am betting its significantly lighter than your Patrol. I am unsure about you but I am a light weight rider so when I drop below a certain threshold on trail bikes they bike just becomes unplanted for me no matter what. I built up a carbon smuggler (140/120mm) in a pretty lightweight build and hated it for this very reason. I really liked the bike with a heavier build though. I had a similar experience with some Enduros over the years, I had an S-works for a bit and it was just too light, the same exact bike with a heavier build crushed it though. Both had top of the line Lyriks and Ohlins rear shocks. I've seen heavier guys where it isn't such an issue and admit I don't know where you are on the scale.

What about tires? Are you running the same tires on both bikes? heavier casing tires will dampen more and help keep you on line.

[adrenalated]

Norco's recommended setup for a Zeb on the Range was insanely soft and terrible for me too. Try the RS baseline and report back.

Thanks, I will give it a try. The fork does not feel too soft though - I do use all the travel, but never feel like it's diving, or packing out, or bottoming out hard, etc. Still, I'll try the higher pressure just to see.

A pike at 140 (the max they should be IMO) just isn't a fair comparison to a 38. Its never gonna be close. I realize you probably get this though.

You need to consider all the factors that affect your bike being deflected, the first is the the overall mass of the machine. I am betting its significantly lighter than your Patrol. I am unsure about you but I am a light weight rider so when I drop below a certain threshold on trail bikes they bike just becomes unplanted for me no matter what. I built up a carbon smuggler (140/120mm) in a pretty lightweight build and hated it for this very reason. I really liked the bike with a heavier build though. I had a similar experience with some Enduros over the years, I had an S-works for a bit and it was just too light, the same exact bike with a heavier build crushed it though. Both had top of the line Lyriks and Ohlins rear shocks. I've seen heavier guys where it isn't such an issue and admit I don't know where you are on the scale.

What about tires? Are you running the same tires on both bikes? heavier casing tires will dampen more and help keep you on line.

Thanks, the Patrol has a 36, not a 38, but yeah, I'm not expecting or wanting the Norco to match the Patrol for stability. I WANT it to be lighter, faster, more efficient and don't expect it to be the downhill tank that the Patrol is. That's why I have both bikes.

My issue is the balance, not the overall capability. The front end feels like it's holding the rest of the bike back and if I could improve the stability there without a big sacrifice is weight/efficiency, I'd do so.

I am also a lightweight rider (155lbs kitted) and that's likely part of it.

Tires are different - Optic has the stock Mazza/Martello with Cushcore XC and the Patrol has Assegai Exo / DHR2 DD with standard Cushcore, so for sure a beefier setup on the Patrol.

I'm not unhappy with the Optic. Quite the opposite in fact, it makes mellower flowing trails (of which I have a lot of near my new home) waaaay more fun than the Patrol. But if I could make it just a touch more capable without ruining it's character, I'd be down with that.

[D(C)]

Norco's recommended setup for a Zeb on the Range was insanely soft and terrible for me too. Try the RS baseline and report back.

I found the Norco settings gave the correct sag/sensitivity off the top, whereas the RS recommended settings gave the correct general support but an overly tall ride height. The problem is the air spring design, which forces you to choose a compromise between the crappy setups above.

I found that installing a Luftkappe made a massive difference on my Zeb. I am now running around the RS-recommended pressure, which gives good support, but am getting a more appropriate level of suppleness off the top.

It’s all in the details, but the 2023 Zeb air spring could result in a similar improvement to the Luftkappe.

[HAB]

I found the Norco settings gave the correct sag/sensitivity off the top, whereas the RS recommended settings gave the correct general support but an overly tall ride height. The problem is the air spring design, which forces you to choose a compromise between the crappy setups above.

I found that installing a Luftkappe made a massive difference on my Zeb. I am now running around the RS-recommended pressure, which gives good support, but am getting a more appropriate level of suppleness off the top.

It’s all in the details, but the 2023 Zeb air spring could result in a similar improvement to the Luftkappe.

Yeah, the Gen 1 Zeb spring kind of sucks. The new one is way, way better.