I’ve Been in Idaho for a Week, and WTF…

[neckdeep]

Public Lands Grazing is welfare ranching and those folks think OUR lands belong to them cuz they ranch on them.
this guy is what you miss?
https://www.votebundy.com/
Them folks are still focused on radically reducing federal land ownership in the West, property that belongs to the U.S. public but is coveted by ranchers, farmers, developers and others.

“When you lose control of the land, you lose control of everything,” Bundy said standing on an outdoor stage between cardboard cutouts of Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump, both of whom favored opening federal lands to development. “History and human nature demonstrate that if we build up and create dense and congested cities with large populations, traffic and pollution, we will lose our conservative, traditional values.”

Remember his father, Cliven Bundy, fought against against the Bureau of Land Management in Utah/Nevada thinking our land was his and rallied every looney in the mountain West to show up armed

the kind of folks that carry out an armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon to protest the prosecution of two ranchers accused of setting fires on federal lands?

Maybe my years in Aspen and Manhattan have made me toughened to rich assholes, but rather them than these idiots that rage against the federal government while taking their subsidies

Yeah, preachin to the choir and all that.

Here's the thing. You can only put so many cows on the land. There's an upper limit to cows. But there's always room for another trophy home. That never ends. Cows suck but, its the lesser evil, imho.

[Timberridge]

Yeah, preachin to the choir and all that.

Here's the thing. You can only put so many cows on the land. There's an upper limit to cows. But there's always room for another trophy home. That never ends. Cows suck but, its the lesser evil, imho.

And you can kill'em and eat'em.

[neckdeep]

And you can kill'em and eat'em.

And they move around their pastures. They get moved out to feedlots. Once that trophy home gets built, that's a 24/7/365 blight on the land. That riverbend or hilltop will NEVER look natural again. Neither will the night sky.

[Timberridge]

Anyone cross the border and eat here?

[RootSkier]

You can put houses on federal land? A lot of them? Who knew?!

[neckdeep]

You can put houses on federal land? A lot of them? Who knew?!

Hmmmm? You and Woodsy seem to be under the impression that our local cattle folks are welfare bums like the Bundys. Actually, most own a lot of land in county and are sitting on millions in unrealized gains. Many families are just waiting for the title holders to die so then the heirs can get a stepped up tax basis and sell out to developers. If they need money now, they can sell off 5 acre chunks of land. Its a hot market.

Anyways, there's probably 4 or 5 times as many houses here as there was 25 years ago and thats had a far greater impact on our quality of life than a bunch of shitty cows ever did. Its not going to stop, we've morphed into a real estate dependent economy.

[RootSkier]

He was specifically talking about rancher welfare queens.

[neckdeep]

He was specifically talking about rancher welfare queens.

Sure, but I wasn't and I was the one who brought it up. Those rancher welfare queens are ruining BLM leases out on arid scrub land out in places where nobody wants to build a trophy home. Here, ranch land going residential could become another fucking golf course. I hear ya but, different set of issues around here.

A NFS grazing lease here only provides food for 3 summer months. A rancher has to have private land holdings and produce or buy fodder for the other 9 months.

[Woodsy]

You said

Their herds would destroy miles of streams and riverbanks. The local trails would be stomped out and covered in shit and flies

In all my time out west I never knew any private land holders to allow access to locals to build trails or enjoy their streams and riverbanks.

Also most large landowners I encountered in UT, ID, WY, MT also used adjacent BLM land.
I apologize I misunderstood the demographic you were referring to but think you can see how I got there.

[neckdeep]

You said


In all my time out west I never knew any private land holders to allow access to locals to build trails or enjoy their streams and riverbanks.

Also most large landowners I encountered in UT, ID, WY, MT also used adjacent BLM land.
I apologize I misunderstood the demographic you were referring to but think you can see how I got there.

There's plenty of cows moving upland into NFS leases right now. Got stuck behind a drive of about 300 head going out to pick morels Tuesday afternoon. And they do really fuck up the lower sections of local trails on those leases. Still, I regard it as the lesser evil.

[Buster Highmen]

In all my time out west I never knew any private land holders to allow access to locals to build trails or enjoy their streams and riverbanks.

.

We allowed river access on our measly little 3 acres and it was a total pain in the ass.

[neckdeep]

We allowed river access on our measly little 3 acres and it was a total pain in the ass.

Idaho has some of the best stream access rules in the country. That's a legacy of the old sagebrush libertarian/populist school of politics that used to define Idaho. A way of thinking that is increasingly under attack within the state GOP.

[Timberridge]

The Idaho Department of Employment, Division of Labor Standards claimed a small rancher was not paying proper wages to his help and sent an agent out to investigate him.

Agent: I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them.

Rancher: Well, there's my hired hand who's been with me for 3 years. I pay him $200 a week plus free room and board. Then there's the mentally challenged guy. He works about 18 hours every day and does about 90% of all the work around here. He makes about $10 per week, pays his own room and board. I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night so he can cope with life and he sleeps with my wife occasionally.

Agent: That's the guy I want to talk to - the mentally challenged one.

Rancher: That would be me.

[thebirdhunter]

You said


In all my time out west I never knew any private land holders to allow access to locals to build trails or enjoy their streams and riverbanks..

You didn’t get out much did ya? You should’ve left the city limits of Salt Lake more.

There’s literally thousands of miles of rivers and streams and hundreds of thousands of acres of private land that ranchers own and allow the public to hunt and fish on throughout the west. Build trails? Probably not. And the fucking Bundy’s are not your typical ranchers either. That’s a piss poor example of ranchers.

It’s the Manhattanites that you idolize so much are the ones buying the land and locking everyone out.

In Montana some rich California asshole bought some land that the previous land owners allowed the public to access the NF through. Long story short, California asshole murdered his new neighbor trying to use that trail.

[total_immortal]

In Montana some rich California asshole bought some land that the previous land owners allowed the public to access the NF through. Long story short, California asshole murdered his new neighbor trying to use that trail.

You got a source for that or are you conflating real life with one of those stupid "soap-opera's for men" set on a Montana ranch?

Honestly, some (certainly not all) of the newer land-owners in my neck of the woods are pretty good stewards of the land and are actively trying to protect the resources because they can afford to not develop or overgraze their property. It's the old landowners who fight most of the conservation measures.

[neckdeep]

You got a source for that or are you conflating real life with one of those stupid "soap-opera's for men" set on a Montana ranch?

Honestly, some (certainly not all) of the newer land-owners in my neck of the woods are pretty good stewards of the land and are actively trying to protect the resources because they can afford to not develop or overgraze their property. It's the old landowners who fight most of the conservation measures.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...owners-montana

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...nger-your-land



Keep in mind that this is BEFORE the great pandemic run for the hills. 2018 seems like a quainter time, these days.

[Woodsy]

We allowed river access on our measly little 3 acres and it was a total pain in the ass.

I remember well

[CarlMega]

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...owners-montana

Keep in mind that this is BEFORE the great pandemic run for the hills. 2018 seems like a quainter time, these days.

Man, what a bunch of RINOs in MT. In FL, you'd be able to kill your neighbor for his trespass and probably sue to get your ammo costs back. Maybe they'd throw a parade in your honor just to make a point.

Edit: worth calling out, the shooting was actually in 2013... with disputes going back 2010. Might be important to the narrative.

[teleee]

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...owners-montana

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...nger-your-land



Keep in mind that this is BEFORE the great pandemic run for the hills. 2018 seems like a quainter time, these days.

I have tried to resist this whole conversation but I cant. My family has ranched on the Wyoming - Montana area for 5 generations. They have sportmen access on miles and miles of river and streams. They allow hunting and camping with permission. The article linked here is sadly changing the west. Good luck fishing on Kanye's property (one of our new neighbors). The Bundy's piss me off. Most ranchers pay their fees and comply with the regulations, often times improving the grazing and land on their BLM/Forest service allotments. Like anything else their are bad apples, but like Neckdeep I sure as hell prefer the old ranchers over the jackasses that want to buy their chunk of the west and then not share it with anyone else.

[Buster Highmen]

fwiw, there's 2 sides to those stories.
We allowed access for fishing along the river, but got broken into, shot at, had firewood stolen and threatened both me, my wife and our under 4 year old kids multiple times. People left broken glass, garbage including diapers and take out containers. Assholes poached with bait on waters designated baitless, barbless single hook, used gasoline and other accelerants to start fires in the streambed.

I saw the other side too, when my best friends from Deer Lodge had their lakefront family cabin, built by their grandfather who built the old prison there, burned down since it was on a landlease bought by new money. The new owners locked gates to access the lake and got sued by another old Deer Lodge family who own property at the inlet. We still camped up there through the 90s until my pal died of liver cancer.

Point being, there's assholes on both sides and all the natural resources which used to be so abundant are now hotly competed for and the subject the new commons crisis. Hopefully access can get sorted out with a mechanism that prosecutes the poachers and idiots who desecrate the public lands.

[Hopeless Sinner]

Idaho has some of the best stream access rules in the country. That's a legacy of the old sagebrush libertarian/populist school of politics that used to define Idaho. A way of thinking that is increasingly under attack within the state GOP.

Nice new trespassing law to deal w in Idaho as of 2018. It put the kibosh on waterfowling from navigable streams.

(d) "Enter" or "enters" means going upon or over real property either in person or by causing any object, substance or force to go upon or over real property.

[stuckathuntermtn]

As annoying as their shitty politics are, most ranchers are way too busy for armed insurrection.

[lifelinksplit]

Anyone cross the border and eat here?

Yep. Place is a trip. Feels like you could still get a side of opium and whores. Decent food too.

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[snapt]

Good luck fishing on Kanye's property (one of our new neighbors). The

Thought I read he already sold it or listed it for sale? Never forget running into Kid Cudi some years back and wondering wtf happened to this place.

[teleee]

Thought I read he already sold it or listed it for sale? Never forget running into Kid Cudi some years back and wondering wtf happened to this place.

It’s listed, I don’t think he has sold it yet. Yea this isn’t the West I grew up in.


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