Alternatives to Canyon Endurace CF 7 eTap or SL 8 Disc Di2?

[Jonathan S.]

Considering either of these models, and wondering what comparable models anyone here would suggest from non-DTC brands (preferably carried by shops close to 01002).
Or should I just go with the one of the Canyon models if I'm comfortable buying sight-unseen and not having LBS support?

This would be a discretionary purchase that can wait awhile, even until 2023, so in-stock availability is not an issue.
Size would definitely be a Small for Canyon (54cm according to the FAQ).

Excessively lengthy background and priorities:

I bought a Klein Quantum (105 grupo, alu frame, cf fork & seat post, CXP 23 wheels) used way back in 2003, 53cm.
Some details posted here: https://tinyurl.com/KleinQuantum ... from a fit assessment awhile ago.
The new bike would need to more efficient on the road, and immediately noticeable as such. (Although I rarely ride longer than a half century.)

But, would also need to be reasonably capable and fun on decent gravel roads (which we have a lot of out here in Western Massachusetts).
I find my Quantum to be somewhat fear-inducing on anything unpaved.
Really rough pavement can also be sketchy.
The 23mm tires aren’t helping that, but I’m pretty sure that generation of bike can’t handle much more width, if any.

However, would not be used for rough gravel.
For that, I have a Raleigh Willard 3 (SRAM Apex 1, alu frame, cf fork, disc brakes, 40mm tires), more details here: https://tinyurl.com/RaleighWillard3 … which is great for rougher gravel, non-technical singletrack, bike path commuting, in-town roads, etc., and rides that combine all four of foregoing.
I bought the 54cm in that model, based on the simple size guide of 5’7” to 5’9” (since I’m 5’8”), and the fit sure seems perfect.
(I set it up myself when I assembled it, trying to mimic the feel of my road bike fit, but a little more relaxed.)
So much fun off road that I almost never use my mtn bike now ever since I bought the Willard back in 2018 (somewhat on a whim, since it was nearly free back then, which also makes me more willing to lock it up in public, at least in daylight).

Seems like at a minimum I need a full carbon frame, Di2 or eTap, and disc brakes.
Not interested in power meter (I measure my backcountry skiing enough), racing (I do that for skimo), wet conditions performance (into ski mountaineering in all sorts of foul weather, but a fair weather biker), or bikepacking.
I have tubeless tires on my mtn bike (sure cured flats!), but haven’t bothered setting up my Raleigh gravel bike for that, even though it’s tubeless ready.

Budget is flexible: don’t want to waste money on features I don’t need, but willing to pay more for features that will make my rides more fun and/or more efficient.

BTW, when I emailed all of that to Canyon without specifying a model, the answer that came back was the Endurace CF 7 eTap, which I'd already focused on as one of two potential model picks, so I was happy that both Canyon and I had the same impression of how my priorities match up with their model line-up.
The only additional piece of info I've looked at since then is the weight -- net of pedals and estimate for some accessory mounts, my Klein is in between the weights of the 7 eTap and SL 8 Disc Di2 ... although now I realize that I need to confirm what size corresponds to the Canyon spec weights.

TIY!

[TrueNorth]

If you like the Raleigh, but want to go faster on the road, why not just get some fast rolling road tires for it, or better yet a second aero wheel set with road tires?

[Benneke10]

I don't think either Canyon will have immediately noticeable efficiency gains over the Klein. The fatter tires, more compliant frames and relaxed geometry of modern "all-road" type bikes feel less snappy than road bikes of 10-20 years ago. Newer bikes will be more efficient over longer rides because they absorb so much more impacts and vibrations, but its not an immediately noticeable sensation. Moving from your Klein to the Canyon Endurance will feel kind of like going from an old school superlite no-holds-barred skimo race ski like the Fischer Alpattack to a modern speed-touring ski like the Dynafit Blacklight Pro. Less of an all-out speed machine but much more forgiving and comfortable going fast over rough terrain.

[Jonathan S.]

If you like the Raleigh, but want to go faster on the road, why not just get some fast rolling road tires for it, or better yet a second aero wheel set with road tires?

Hmm, good point, thanks. Could buy a higher-end wheel set for the Raleigh with 30mm road tires, then swap back & forth. I would like to keep the Raleigh OEM wheels & tires for rougher rides though. I've been impressed by how solid it feels for relatively non-technical singletrack. Obviously any extended riding like that would beat me up after awhile with no suspension, but it handles fairly well in those conditions for a gravel bike, and without any fear factor.

[Jonathan S.]

[....]Moving from your Klein to the Canyon Endurance will feel kind of like going from an old school superlite no-holds-barred skimo race ski like the Fischer Alpattack to a modern speed-touring ski like the Dynafit Blacklight Pro.[...]

You're definitely speaking my language!

In skimo terms, looking back at the setups that I used for skimo racing in the 2004-05 through 2008-09 race seasons, these days I could assemble a setup from entirely non-race components that would be better on all aspects of even an entirely groomer-based skimo race, yet would also be far better "real" ski mountaineering.
By contrast, looking back on my setups since then, sure my current setups are lighter, and hence faster for races, but they haven't gotten any better for "real" ski mountaineering. (So although I use cf skimo race boots for all my ski touring, I still use wider skis for anything other than groomers.)

Maybe this is stretching the analogy to its breaking point, but I'm wondering how my Klein from two decades ago fits into all this.
When I had the opportunity to demo a ~$3k road bike recently, unfortunately I was limited to a bike path. Loved the confidence-inspiring disc brakes though.
And eTap or Di2 in the front must be a big improvement.
(When I tried a friend's Di2 1x gravel bike, barely made any difference in the back, and in the front, well, it's 1x!)

Of course this would be where a LBS demo has value, although I'll have to look into whether a LBS here actually has a ~$5k all-road bike to demo...

[XXX-er]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...o-being-a-dick

Did you check this out, does it affect you and what are your thots if it does ?

[Jonathan S.]

I just keep things simple and use my same old Garmin Fenix 5x for tracking all my activities, skiing, running, biking.

[climberevan]

Benneke nailed it. I bet a new bike will actually BE faster but will FEEL slower, just as 23mm tires at 110psi FEEL faster than 28mm tires at 75psi but ARE slower.

I think what you might want is a really nice gravel bike (like the top-end Grizl) with 2 sets of wheels, as TN suggests.

Shimano's dick move with the Hammerhead is pretty lame, but Di2, and especially the new 12s stuff, is way nicer than Etap. The pathetic battery life on the Hammerhead already kept me from buying one. I can't imagine SRAM wouldn't do the same thing if Shimano bought, say, Wahoo.

Either way, electronic shifting is fantastic and I wouldn't go back to mechanical on a drop bar bike. Choose your poison based on which hoods fit your hands and whether you want to charge 2 batteries or 1.

[Jonathan S.]

Benneke nailed it. I bet a new bike will actually BE faster but will FEEL slower, just as 23mm tires at 110psi FEEL faster than 28mm tires at 75psi but ARE slower.

Yep, just like skiing at 62.4 mph on skimo race skis:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1997064590
... feels like, well, actually, it felt like 62.4 mph, which is somewhat terrifying on skis.
By contrast, doing that on SG or DH skis on easy courses (without air!) was (back in my alpine racing years) somewhat relaxing, everything was just so stable.

But anyways, as long as an "all road" bike will let me slightly improve my pace on ideal pavement, feel more comfortable on rough pavement, and be usable on nice gravel, then sounds like it scores favorably on the Worthitmeter.
(Especially given how much my wife keeps spending on landscaping -- although at least my frequently assigned tasks of moving plants, soil bags, and bark mulch bags sort of counts as exercise.)

[Jonathan S.]

Ended up pulling the trigger on the SL 8 Disc Di2 since it was immediately available in the outlet for an add'l 10% discount -- essentially indistinguishable from new other than a couple trivial scratches on a crank arm, plus no worries about a private used seller on Pinkbike swapping in cheaper components.

Packaging was excellent. Assembly was trivial, nothing more than you'd do for shipping the bike on a trip. Except that the proprietary integrated cockpit is kind of a puzzler, and the Canyon documentation is worthless for this. But that was a relatively minor inconvenience. Packet of carbon paste was also missing, so had to visit a LBS for that, for which Canyon reimbursed me.

Finding the Di2 charger port was also a puzzler. Called Canyon, who directed me to a third-party video, which also recommended the Shimano phone app. Which I later learned can often brick your bike.
Oh.
Fortunately Canyon reimbursed me to have another LBS unbrick the Di2. LBS also reassembled the bottom bracket and tuned the shifting -- said that wasn't a problem specific to Canyon and instead all bikes are prone to a factor assembly that still requires some add'l work at the shop. So score one for LBS over DTC.

Everyone at the LBS though praised the bike.
And the Di2 sure is sweet for front shifting. The semi-syncro setup I'm using with the rear is also nice. But the rear shifting on its own is barely any different than mechanical, although I already knew that from swapping back-and-forth with a friend's gravel Di2 1by vs my gravel SRAM Apex 1by (i.e., pretty much the same).
The disc brakes are also a huge upgrade from my two-decade-old road bike, although I already knew that from having disc brakes on my mtn bike since 2009, and my gravel bike since 2018..
What I didn't realize would be the upgrade in smoothness, comfort, handling, confidence, etc. on rough surfaces, whether all-too-typical pavement out here, or even off road. Hard to tell whether it's the wider tires (30 vs 23) or the carbon frame. But whatever it is, wow!

[Dee Hubbs]

I'm a big fan of Semi-Syncro shifting. I have mine programed to shift 2 cogs in the rear when I shift the front derailleur.
That programing jump makes the most sense to me.
I run a 50-34 with a 11-30 cassette.
So if I'm climbing in the big ring, 50-21, (gear ratio of 2.38) my next easier shift would be 50-24 (2.08)
OR I shift to my small ring, and the system puts me in 34-17 (automatically shifts 2 cogs in the rear) and gives me a ratio of 2.00.
It's a no brainer to program the semi-synchro shifting.

[Jonathan S.]

Yep, nice feature for sure!

[climberevan]

Interesting. I couldn't get along with the auto shifting, so I run full manual on both of my Di2 bikes. It does seem like a good idea though.