View Poll Results: What should we do?

Voters
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  • Nothing, Cat is out of the bag and this is the cost of our "freedom"

    6 5.45%
  • Prison Time for gun owners who lose or have their gun stolen

    22 20.00%
  • Background checks and a waiting period for 100% of transactions

    89 80.91%
  • No semiautomatic anythings...

    41 37.27%
  • Tax gun sales with additional fee to go to mental health

    49 44.55%
  • Register ALL firearms and require insurance (car analogy)

    72 65.45%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Yup, as is my case. I have guns for the eventual collapse of Murican society, but I would willing turn them in if it was National policy
    Same. Until someone stops the wholesale slaughter of people in downtown St Louis donít ask me to go help people with their medicare and medicaid without worrying about my safety.

    Iíve actually stopped going down there and helping the low income beneficiaries. I didnít like feeling like I needed a gun 1500 appointments and I saw enough shit to either quit, or put a gun in my bag. So I quit and sold most of what I had.

    I would really, really like to feel like everyone didnít have a fucking gun in their car. But they do.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  2. #777
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    Dantheman, how does that minor action suggest he would do something drastic? Read Woodsy's post above or the heritage foundation report:

    https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...t-trump-so-far
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  3. #778
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    the Question I do have is how was the school Safety Officer not in a position to defend the school - That is that officer's job.

    Not to pursue an assailant in the neighborhood - secure and defend the school ;

    when the call came that drew the school safety officer away, that school should have gone to LOCK-DOWN until the threat was gone. !!!


    f* tj

  4. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere..
    Low hanging fruit. Interesting terminology for something that can't seem to get done.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  5. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I actually think Trump would suggest something like that. He is not really pro gun.

    I do not think that even the #forevertrumpers would jump onboard surrendering their guns just because their orange god commanded it.
    They would deny he said it.

  6. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.



    2019 bump stock ban suggests otherwise.
    Really reaching there Dan

  7. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I am a huge mental health advocate. It is under funded in our society. Improving this priority would reduce gun deaths significantly, but mostly in terms of suicidality. Mental health is horrifically misunderstood in terms of gun crime.

    I don't think that mental health is the issue in this specific circumstance, but we don't know and may never know in this specific incident.

    Medicalizing criminality is a horrific mistake.

    There exists diagnostic boxes into which we can put the fractional (but socially significant) percentage of humanity that will be inevitably and incorrigibly violent, but it isn't because they are ill in the same way that someone with PTSD or depression or ADD or OCD are ill (and each of these is very different).

    Stigma is a problem, because though certain affective (eg schizophrenia) and mood (eg bipolar) disorders seem to make up roughly 10% of murderers when looking at older datasets (a disproportionate amount vs the general population), actually very few people who have those disorders commit murder. This particular phenomenon of statistics is hard to parse for the public/policy makers and hard to address for clinicians. To say this differently, someone who is schizophrenic might have 20x the chance of being a murderer vs average, thus explaining overrepresentation among murderers, but the chance that someone with schizophrenia commits murder in their life is <0.1%!!!

    When you are talking about diagnosis that actually do present a significant risk of murder, these people don't need to pop a pill. Substance abuse disorders correlate with crime, but that is a highly complex topic and is often comorbid with other issues. Other people have certain types of personality disorders such as antisocial or borderline often only recognized only after the fact, and the mechanisms vary too. The few who are violently psychotic or impassionately enraged tend to target those personally close to them (eg DV) and act on different impulses than someone who is amoral like an Antisocial. Antisocials are basically untreatable, amoral, and though there is a distinction between that personality disorder and psychopathy, the overlap is nearly complete. These people almost always end up in the criminal justice system and usually prison, but sometimes they kill (many) before landing there. Flagging them earlier is the only intervention I can think of, and fraught. Failure to intervene despite spotting the problem is another issue (eg the Aurora theater shooter).

    "Support Mental Health" and "Mental Health Awareness" tropes, whether noble or as an excuse, probably have little overlap on functional interventions here.
    American Psychiatric Association Article: Mental Illness Too Often Wrongly Associated With Gun Violence
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  8. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.
    Grudgingly I'll admit that you're probably correct.

  9. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    Fuck the gun owning public. They’re the minority and the majority of the public wants to severely restrict firearm access. Again, FUCK THE GUN OWNING PUBLIC. Your hobby and cosplay and fever dreams of the government/bogeyman coming to get you does not override the rational fear that unarmed citizens feel on a daily basis.
    3% of firearms are "assault weapons". Get off your soapbox.

    You aren't even focused on the correct firearm to change gun deaths in any meaningful way. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is dreadful.

    It's pretty apparent most of you don't know the first thing about gun laws or gun ownership.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  10. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.
    A problem is that there is great awareness of the huge desire frequently and loudly espoused by many to do mass confiscation, and that reasonable inches are part of an incremental strategy to reach that confiscation milestone.

    So this allows a narrative that common sense solutions should be opposed in order to delay the incremental goal of confiscation. And that "it's inevitable, so lets slow it down at every corner" narrative is heavily enable by shrill cries for confiscation by those who are also peddling small steps. That is why the right sadly won't take Feinberg's reasonable proposal seriously. But those screaming for confiscation don't care about that part of the equation, even when it means nothing gets done.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #786
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    I said as much a few pages ago. Negotiation isn't a strong suit of the gun control crowd.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  12. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    the gun owning public is 1/3 of the US
    So is the percentage that says our last election was illegitimate and the guy who lost actually won and were willing to throw out democracy in the toilet due to lies and disproven conspiracy theories.

    Your point?

  13. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    A problem is that there is great awareness of the huge desire frequently and loudly espoused by many to do mass confiscation, and that reasonable inches are part of an incremental strategy to reach that confiscation milestone.

    So this allows a narrative that common sense solutions should be opposed in order to delay the incremental goal of confiscation. And that "it's inevitable, so lets slow it down at every corner" narrative is heavily enable by shrill cries for confiscation by those who are also peddling small steps. That is why the right sadly won't take Feinberg's reasonable proposal seriously. But those screaming for confiscation don't care about that part of the equation, even when it means nothing gets done.
    you can trace the paranoia over registration (specifically computer registries) and confiscation back to Red Dawn and mostly invented bullshit in the 1980s. Gun owners have agency, they aren’t forced to believe shit. But a vocal subset want to believe fantasy.

  14. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Totally agree. I don't know if Australians are culturally similar to citizens of the US. Meaning, was there the same obsession with guns that a significant portion of the US population has?
    No Gravy SEALs in Oz then or now AFAIK. No one else fetishizes guns like Americans do. Well, maybe the Taliban.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    Low hanging fruit. Interesting terminology for something that can't seem to get done.
    It hangs a lot lower than mass confiscation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    Really reaching there Dan
    I'm just stating a fact. The Trump admin banned bump stocks and there was almost no pushback from the right. If Obama had done the same right-wing media would have been apoplectic.

    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Grudgingly I'll admit that you're probably correct.
    I think I'm right, but I wish I was wrong. Shit's fucked and not getting better. This country fetishizes guns in a way that is deeply disturbing.

  15. #790
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    Has anyone proposed widespread confiscation? Buybacks are not confiscation.

  16. #791
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    More than 1/3 of the US has a gun. Quit being so gullible.

    People with illegal firearms aren't offering up that information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    Buybacks are not confiscation.
    The people that make guns out of crap and go buy new ones are really winning there.

    https://investortimes.com/freedomout...hase-new-ones/
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  17. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    Fuck the gun owning public. Theyíre the minority and the majority of the public wants to severely restrict firearm access. Again, FUCK THE GUN OWNING PUBLIC. Your hobby and cosplay and fever dreams of the government/bogeyman coming to get you does not override the rational fear that unarmed citizens feel on a daily basis.
    How many democrat lawmakers would vote to ban semi auto handguns and pump action shotguns? Not many.

    All I hear is ban assault weapons but I respect the American sportsman horseshit.

    Either you want an Australian type turn in, or youíre just playing politics.


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  18. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    Has anyone proposed widespread confiscation? Buybacks are not confiscation.
    Mandatory buybacks are confiscation with less financial loss.

    Voluntary buybacks are legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  19. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    More than 1/3 of the US has a gun. Quit being so gullible.
    back to lieing again stupid? God itís funny watching you be a dumbass, then pretend you are just trolling, like a giant limpdicked gravy seal

  20. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    No Gravy SEALs in Oz then or now AFAIK.
    You should do some research.

    There was very considerable opposition. by the Vegemite militia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  21. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    3% of firearms are "assault weapons". Get off your soapbox.

    You aren't even focused on the correct firearm to change gun deaths in any meaningful way. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is dreadful.

    It's pretty apparent most of you don't know the first thing about gun laws or gun ownership.
    Itís actually about 5% and growing with 1 in 5 of every new gun sell being a high capacity mag, semi auto, black gun. Thereís an estimated 20 mil of them in the US. I personally enjoy shooting bolt actions for accuracy more. They are not great for hunting big game and not great for home defense for many situations. 20 mil of a gun that is good for shooting coyotes, pigs, and people seems like a lot.

    I guess to some they look cool and they can be good for adults who like playing with legos but donít want their buddies knowing they play with legos.

  22. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    do you think the polling on common sense gun control legislation is false? Because what you say can't be true if so...meaning if Trump said today "pass common sense gun control legislation" I do think it would move things in the Senate enough. I get what you're saying, him being the embodiment of his supporters, but to that end almost all of the Trump supporters I know are also vaccinated. I can think of one friend who is a huge gun nut, antivaxxer, and rabid Trumper...so I know what you're saying...those people exist...is it most of the GOP supporters and then is it also most of the folks in the GOP who want common sense gun control? Not everyone is like Leroy on the gun nut side of things. Most of the folks I know, myself included, who own guns mainly own them for hunting...that's not the portion of the population that's the problem, nor should they be singled out as such.
    I think gun culture changed away from the hunting culture a lot of us grew up with. It's more 'tactical' and militaristic revolving around personal defense where the answer to mass shootings is less restrictions, not more restrictions:


    None of them see a connection between the weapons they own and the shootings at Sandy Hook, San Bernardino, Aurora, Orlando, Las Vegas, Parkland. They see mug shots of James Holmes, Omar Mateen, Stephen Paddock, Nikolas Cruz — “crazier than a shithouse rat,” they say. “If it hadn’t been that rifle, he’d have done it with something else.” They fear that what starts as an assault-weapons ban will snowball into an attack on everything in the safe. I don’t believe that politicians are going to ban ordinary guns or overturn the Second Amendment, but I understand their reasoning because I understand what’s at stake. I think about that boy picking up that AR in Cabela’s, and I’m torn between the culture I grew up with and how that culture has devolved. There are changes I know must come, changes to what types of firearms line the shelves and to the background checks and ownership requirements needed to carry one out the door. And there is an unrelenting fear of what could be lost — a subsistence culture already threatened by the loss of public land, rising costs and a widening rural-urban divide; the right of individuals to protect their own lives and the lives of their families.

  23. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Mandatory buybacks are confiscation with less financial loss.

    Voluntary buybacks are legal.
    Well, there's some rhetoric from the pro-gun crowd that should be parsed. Widespread voluntary buyback should be an easy win. Won't be.

  24. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    back to lieing again stupid? God it’s funny watching you be a dumbass, then pretend you are just trolling, like a giant limpdicked gravy seal


    Let it flow through you.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  25. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    A problem is that there is great awareness of the huge desire frequently and loudly espoused by many to do mass confiscation, and that reasonable inches are part of an incremental strategy to reach that confiscation milestone.

    So this allows a narrative that common sense solutions should be opposed in order to delay the incremental goal of confiscation. And that "it's inevitable, so lets slow it down at every corner" narrative is heavily enable by shrill cries for confiscation by those who are also peddling small steps. That is why the right sadly won't take Feinberg's reasonable proposal seriously. But those screaming for confiscation don't care about that part of the equation, even when it means nothing gets done.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    Has anyone proposed widespread confiscation? Buybacks are not confiscation.
    If it's mandatory, which Australia's program was, it's confiscation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    You should do some research.

    There was very considerable opposition. by the Vegemite militia.
    I never said there wasn't opposition. I do think it's fair to say that on average Australian gun owners did/do not have an obsession with guns on par with what a significant portion of the US population has

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