If only there was something we could do...

**Mazderati** · 05-26-2022, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

This PAC has a high rating on Charity Navigator to anyone interested.

**The AD** · 05-26-2022, 11:07 AM

I predict we'll see a movement amongst the gravy seals for them to voluntarily "protect" schools any minute now. Probably a good thing the school year is wrapping up in many places.

**The Reverend Floater** · 05-26-2022, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

No, we could do everything we need to do that every other country has done. Just saying it can't be done is meaningless. We're not as insensible a country as the radical right/gun lobby would have you believe. Get rid of the guns and the problem goes away. It's literally as simple as that. Maybe we would never reach NZ levels of gun safety, but we could get to Canada levels. Certainly.

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

Im well aware of what it takes to own a Pre-86 machine gun. They cost upwards of 30k-150k. I don't think transferable machine guns are an issue.

**RoooR** · 05-26-2022, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Imagine the whole country under NYC gun laws--virtually no one aside from law enforcement allowed to carry, no sales, nothing else.

NYC has a lower murder rate than a lot of big cities, but is still 2x the city I live in (Missoula) despite having a much lower gun ownership rate than we do. I know a lot of domestic violence victims that would not be willing to give up their handguns under almost any circumstances.

**Mazderati** · 05-26-2022, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

I predict we'll see a movement amongst the gravy seals for them to voluntarily "protect" schools any minute now. Probably a good thing the school year is wrapping up in many places.

Plenty of work for them at churches, concerts, and nightclubs.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 05-26-2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

What on earth are you talking about?

There’s a social contract, we don’t kill each other and we should all care about each other’s well being. After decades of inaction in gun control, mental health, climate change, wealth inequity, division and the last three years of hate in regards to elections and measures to combat the spread of covid it seems the social contract is null and void. No one cares about anyone else anymore and it seems it’s every man or woman for themselves. I’m no longer hopeful that anything will be done to prevent the further decline of our once great country and the rest of the world for that matter.

This latest tragedy is just another symptom of an irreversible decline from what were once universally understood social norms. It’s really disgusting.

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**The AD** · 05-26-2022, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mazderati

Plenty of work for them at churches, concerts, and nightclubs.

This is the kind of opportunity they've been masturbating about for years.

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by RoooR

And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

They aren't. Pre-86 machine guns are investments now. No one is buying a 50k select fire M16 and using it for a mass shooting.

**Cisco Kid** · 05-26-2022, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

How about get rid of the ability for any Tom, Dick or Harry to carry a "Assault" rifle willy nilly. Like require a registration to own and use in the public square. Like a car. I can own it and use it at a track but need to register and show some competence on public roads.

**Dantheman** · 05-26-2022, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

And bump stocks were legal until 2019 when they were banned by **checks notes** the Trump admin. Funny how that ban barely caused a stir among the 2A crowd.

**riser4** · 05-26-2022, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

And bump stocks were legal until 2019 when they were banned by **checks notes** the Trump admin. Funny how that ban barely caused a stir among the 2A crowd.

Binary trigger is more useful than bump stock for rapid controlled fire. And even then, it's not full auto.

**MultiVerse** · 05-26-2022, 11:24 AM

Because so many school shooters are either in school or just out of school themselves it seems like lockdown drills, locking doors, or hardening entrances essentially becomes ‘taking off your shoes in airport security.’ An 18 year old shooter had lockdown drills growing up. They've been through school drills as kids. They know the entry procedures, the weak spots and the hiding places.

If anything security procedures and drills are giving some of them ideas, something to fantasize about.

In this the most recent shooting where the shooter reportedly 'barricaded' himself inside a classroom the so called barricade was quite possibly a heavy steel door with a lock on the inside specifically designed to keep an active shooter out. As a result it took longer to breach the classroom because authorities couldn't kick the door in and instead had to locate a key.

**riser4** · 05-26-2022, 11:26 AM

Probably score some free guns in the cars in the parking lots during tRumps NRA convention appearance: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/...tail=emaildkre

**Dantheman** · 05-26-2022, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

Guns are lot harder to illicitly manufacture and smuggle than drugs. But, I am generally inclined to agree that it's not a realistic solution.

It would be nice if we could apply the same "Responsible law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of a miniscule minority of stupid and/or crazy people" gun logic to drugs, though. At least that would be intellectually consistent.

**Buster Highmen** · 05-26-2022, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Im well aware of what it takes to own a Pre-86 machine gun. They cost upwards of 30k-150k. I don't think transferable machine guns are an issue.

Do you ride a unicycle much?
Because your backpedaling without owning your fail is awesome.

You must be in sales.

**toast2266** · 05-26-2022, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by RoooR

And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

Fully agreed. I'm not overly concerned with additional restrictions on autos; I was just responding to B.S. who was implying that autos are already banned. If semi-autos had the same restrictions as full autos, we'd be in better shape.

**summit** · 05-26-2022, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Turns out the cops didn't follow him in. The started tasing parents trying to enter.

https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w

That is a terrible look for the police.

So is the fact that a bunch of overweight officers in body armor with AR-15s standing around threatening the parents with tazers instead of what they should be doing: breaching the school, neutralizing the shooter to stop the slaughter, and getting medical care to the dying children.

Untrained unarmed parents willing to go up against a gunman while trained, armed, and armored cops, charged with defending the public, stop the parents instead of the gunman!

Fucking cowards!!!

**Jong Lafitte** · 05-26-2022, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Turns out the cops didn't follow him in. The started tasing parents trying to enter.

https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w

What in the actual fuck is this?!?!?!

Easy! Easy! Folks! Easy, take it easy, he’ll run out of ammo or get bored with the killing of people pretty soon. Just let it run it’s course. Don’t pay attention to him while he’s throwing a tantrum, that’s what he wants.

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**Adolf Allerbush** · 05-26-2022, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

Maybe we try to do what Australia did in response to mass shootings: https://fortune.com/2018/02/20/austr...ntrol-success/

Why is it possible for other countries to fix their gun violence issues, mostly, but we act like it's impossible in the US? That's not necessarily for you specifically...but just a question to the TGR masses.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 05-26-2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Maybe we try to do what Australia did in response to mass shootings: https://fortune.com/2018/02/20/austr...ntrol-success/

Why is it possible for other countries to fix their gun violence issues, mostly, but we act like it's impossible in the US? That's not necessarily for you specifically...but just a question to the TGR masses.

Because FREEDOM!!!!!!

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**dunfree** · 05-26-2022, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Was locking the doors included in "hardening" the schools?

Can locked doors be unlocked? Maybe chain ‘em shut.

**summit** · 05-26-2022, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

Can locked doors be unlocked? Maybe chain ‘em shut.

It is not like the crazed gunman was going to pick the locks.

You have gone from shrill to obtuse, and not just in this thread. It has be especially bad lately. You are not quite to leroy levels but you are trying very very hard. It is sad, because unlike SJG, you are not mentally handicapped.

**Buster Highmen** · 05-26-2022, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

You have gone from shrill to obtuse.

It is not like the crazed gunman was going to pick the locks.

Couldn't she just shoot them off?

**riser4** · 05-26-2022, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Because so many school shooters are either in school or just out of school themselves it seems like lockdown drills, locking doors, or hardening entrances essentially becomes ‘taking off your shoes in airport security.’ An 18 year old shooter had lockdown drills growing up. They've been through school drills as kids. They know the entry procedures, the weak spots and the hiding places.

If anything security procedures and drills are giving some of them ideas, something to fantasize about.

In this the most recent shooting where the shooter reportedly 'barricaded' himself inside a classroom the so called barricade was quite possibly a heavy steel door with a lock on the inside specifically designed to keep an active shooter out. As a result it took longer to breach the classroom because authorities couldn't kick the door in and instead had to locate a key.

This is a really good point.