If only there was something we could do...

[Bobby Stainless]

He’s acting as the figurehead for the “we can’t and won’t address the real problem here” crowd.

Well... I'm kind of on the other side of the issue than you are. I've made suggestions.

[summit]

Dude, that’s where we have a problem. A handgun vs a Rifle is no contest. Throw in body armor and you have cops waiting outside for 45 minutes. Even you can admit that.


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Most cops have rifles in their patrol cars and wear body armor every single shift all shift long, this has been the trend since the mid 1990s. This perp had only soft armor (stops some pistol rounds maybe) only covering some of his torso.

After Columbine, OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO, where the cops waited around forever while the killers killed, the modus operandi for police active shooter response switched to: ATTACK FULL BREACH IMMEDIATELY by as few as two initial responding officers.

Having 3 cops flee, then a whole department twiddling their thumbs for 40 minutes is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement. That the perp had to be taken down by a CBP tactical team that just happened to be nearby and just happened to be listening to the radio (and then couldn't breach a simple door) is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement.

NOBODY gives two fucks about officer safety in these situations except for fucking cowards.

[skiJ]

This, and all the other bullshit distraction attempts about mental health being a priority, blah blah. Bottom line, as always, is a complete shift in gun regulation (ultra-strict like other countries have--countries that never, ever have these problems) will fix all of this. The rest is just bullshit the gun people have used to distract from what needs to be done--getting rid of most of these guns. Get rid of the guns and you get rid of the problem. It really is that simple, as other countries have shown us. There's nothing so special about us that would make us the exception. Who gives a fuck what 18th century slave owners wrote down (putting aside the misreading of the amendment, which is very clear that the 'right' only applies for the purposes of maintaining a military).

Sickening what people are willing to accept and advocate for.

Dex., buddy, dismissing the Constitution really isn't helpful -
our "founding fathers" would be appalled by what has become of the country And the government they created ( and might lead another Revolution. ... ) ;

no--argument the court ( and the government) have erred in their 'interpretation' of the Second amendment - but that's what courts do - and in too many cases, it has nothing to do with the law as it is written.

There are two posts in yesterday's fifteen pages of posts regarding Regulation that I support - focused on registration, licensure, and ongoing demonstration-and-testament of competence. ! !!

( one even claims efforts to enhance school Safety "is insane. "

awesome. )


I will continue to follow this thread, Because I believe school Safety is important and I have worked with children for thirty years...


leroy had a good post yesterday - about compromise. But I did not recognize anything about compromise by gun advocates --
I can go 'to the middle' but there is no-compromise while the car salesman awaits his Class3 assault rifle.


The Consitution is the foundation of the nation. Congress passes laws and has the authority to amend the Constitution. the bureauracracy carries out the government...

and Mitch gets his sound-bite, photo.op. acting like he cares about mental health.

vote them out ! !!! tj

[mcphee]

https://popular.info/p/5-facts-about-guns-in-america

Seems that a majority of citizens want less guns in circulation and made. I wonder why the lawmakers think otherwise?

[The AD]

I'm not sure what to think about the fact that many of the people who thought wearing masks in schools was damaging to the kids, but filling schools with ex-combat soldiers carrying ARs is a great solution to this problem.

[Ted Striker]

I'm not sure what to think about the fact that many of the people who thought wearing masks in schools was damaging to the kids, but filling schools with ex-combat soldiers carrying ARs is a great solution to this problem.

The only remaining core value of the GQP is hypocrisy.

[Mazderati]

I was told in this thread that if I own guns, it’s a waste of time to write legislators.

It's not the ownership; it's the continued buying of guns and ammo and memberships from companies and orgs that actively undermine tangible change that makes your letter writing hypocritical.

[Bobby Stainless]

I'm not sure what to think about the fact that many of the people who thought wearing masks in schools was damaging to the kids, but filling schools with ex-combat soldiers carrying ARs is a great solution to this problem.

Better than cops that run away. I also didn't have an issue with masks. I'm also vaccinated. Any other off topic shit to talk about?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So, what’s the solution? You guys have had another day and hundreds(thousands?)of posts. Nothing is going to change is my guess. The social contract has been voided.


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[MultiVerse]

For all the talk about armed guards, something to keep in mind even a very fast 30 second response time still isn't fast enough to prevent a high death toll when the shooter has a 100-round drum magazine: 24-year-old Connor Betts shot and killed nine people, including his sister, and wounded 17 others near the entrance of the Ned Peppers Bar in the Oregon District of Dayton, Ohio. Betts was fatally shot by responding police officers 32 seconds after the first shots were fired. A total of 27 people were taken to area hospitals.

[::: :::]

About half.

not anymore, more like a third

[summit]

The social contract has been voided.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Conundrum]

It's not the ownership; it's the continued buying of guns and ammo and memberships from companies and orgs that actively undermine tangible change that makes your letter writing hypocritical.

Sweet assumptions on how I spend my money and my correspondence with legislators. Dick.

[summit]

The presumptive vitriol directed personally is sad, but expected in the emotional response to this horror. Won't help anything though...

[::: :::]

this ^^^ is failure

of imagination
of effort
of policy
of caring
of public health
of ethical stomach to do the right thing

[dunfree]

Sweet assumptions on how I spend my money and my correspondence with legislators. Dick.

He’s being a dick about it, but it’s almost impossible to find a gun business that doesn’t actively support the NRA ime. And if they don’t support the nra it’s whatever weirdo group that’s further fringe

[liv2ski]

What on earth are you talking about?

Only in Murica. Social contract as in we take care of each other.

[The AD]

Better than cops that run away. I also didn't have an issue with masks. I'm also vaccinated. Any other off topic shit to talk about?

The mental health of school children is very much on topic.

[Cisco Kid]

yep

[Bobby Stainless]

The mental health of school children is very much on topic.

Keeping a kid from getting shot helps their mental health.

It seems more and more obvious that local police aren't up to the task.

It's amazing to me the shooter was able to enter the school.

[muted reborn]

this ^^^ is failure

of imagination
of effort
of policy
of caring
of public health
of ethical stomach to do the right thing

Yes, and it's not a solution but a reaction to shit policy and gun culture. It won't even stop every killer. But it's our reality now. We have a couple weeks until school is out, whose school is going to see a copycat killer in the coming weeks?

[leroy jenkins]

I don't agree with everything you say/do with guns but I don't get all the shrill libtards screaming at you here.

Leroy gets everything he deserves here though, Leroy you are a condescending POS.

Honestly I do not get how I am condescending, especially when compared with many here, I don't call names, tell people they are stupid, ridicule or use strawmen.

I ramble a bit.

My point this whole time is that you anti gun types won't get the support to turn over the second amendment and if you want the perfect to not be the enemy of the good and actually create solutions, you're going to have to start focusing on less divisive solutions that more people can support because overturning the second just isn't going to happen, and if it did, even if you supported it, it would be done as an act of tyranny like executive order and not the actual 38 states ratification for nullifying an amendment you'd need.

WTF about that is condescending? I used the phrase emotionally gratifying a few times because yes, that does seem like what is focused on by many, and venting hate for gun owners won't solve anything, but that is pretty tame for condescending around here.

Again I'd really love an actual answer as I have no idea why, other than perhaps its annoying to you if you know the above has truth and validity but would rather not think about it..

[summit]

The mental health of school children is very much on topic.

We have more than one example of school shooters specifically targeting those who mercilessly bullied them, or targeted the school at which they were bullied blaming the system, not that such murder is justified.

This 18 year old guy did not attend school for the last year, guy got kicked out of his house, lived with his grandparents, shot grandma over a phone bill, then went to a random nearby elementary school and randomly murdered an entire classroom of 4th graders and their teacher.

I guarantee you he was an amoral psychopath. You CANNOT fix that with better mental healthcare. I made a detailed post about this a few pages back and got zero response.

Don't medicalize all criminality.

That being said, mental healthcare is very important.

[Ted Striker]

For all the talk about armed guards, something to keep in mind is even a very fast 30 second response time still isn't fast enough to prevent a high death toll when the shooter has a 100-round drum magazine

This. The tired old trope that "guns don't kill people; people kill people" skirts the laws of physics. If the well regulated militia had to stop to ram their muskets, so should wannabe kid killers.

[mcphee]

The presumptive vitriol directed personally is sad, but expected in the emotional response to this horror. Won't help anything though...

Oh no. Vitriol towards historically and actively smug dickheads. Maybe if people are nicer to them, they’ll change.