If only there was something we could do...

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by ::: :::

why are you waiting?

Anything designated Class 3 is a registered item. The ATF requires a picture, finger prints, and access to the items whenever they please. The wait time has been about a year. They have moved to all electronic and it's supposed to only take 3-4 months now. Class 3 covers registered machine guns, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, suppressors and things called AOWs.

The ATF could say arm braces are no longer legal. Those people when then either have to Form 1 their AR pistols or buy a new upper that is 16" long.

Im not sure if that is going to help you understand.

**mcphee** · 05-26-2022, 06:28 AM

Congress makes gun laws, ATF enforces them.

Your obfuscation ability is normally impressive. But in this case where we’re discussing how to keep kids from being murdered and you’re bellyaching over having to wait for toys is why you’re viewed by most as an insufferable piece of shit.

**::: :::** · 05-26-2022, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Anything designated Class 3 is a registered item. The ATF requires a picture, finger prints, and access to the items whenever they please. The wait time has been about a year. They have moved to all electronic and it's supposed to only take 3-4 months now. Class 3 covers registered machine guns, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, suppressors and things called AOWs.

The ATF could say arm braces are no longer legal. Those people when then either have to Form 1 their AR pistols or buy a new upper that is 16" long.

Im not sure if that is going to help you understand.

I’m asking why you waited instead of the quick purchase

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by ::: :::

I’m asking why you waited instead of the quick purchase

I want to have the Class 3 short barreled rifle and not the pistol. It's protected from any type of law that gets put in place because it's already registered at the highest level. The only other rifle I have is a bolt action hunting rifle.

Anyone can go out an buy a AR "pistol" with an arm brace. It's a sketchy way to get around the SBR wait time.

**::: :::** · 05-26-2022, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

I want to have the Class 3 short barreled rifle and not the pistol. It's protected from any type of law that gets put in place because it's already registered at the highest level. The only other rifle I have is a bolt action hunting rifle.

Anyone can go out an buy a AR "pistol" with an arm brace. It's a sketchy way to get around the SBR wait time.

Ok, thx

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by mcphee

Congress makes gun laws, ATF enforces them.

Your obfuscation ability is normally impressive. But in this case where we’re discussing how to keep kids from being murdered and you’re bellyaching over having to wait for toys is why you’re viewed by most as an insufferable piece of shit.

If you read what I am saying, the current laws don't make any sense. If I wanted a toy quickly, I would've bought the pistol version. I don't care about the wait. I think the wait is a good thing, even if its 30% of what it used to be.

Hence the reason I think all "assault weapons" (which needs more definition) should be Class 3. I don't like to tell people what they need or don't need. It's not really my business. However, if you want access to dangerous shit you need to go through some hoops. They aren't even hoops really. It's just the ATF making sure you aren't a felon or on a list.

**Bunion 2020** · 05-26-2022, 06:57 AM

While all this is sort of interesting it does not address the relevant facts that are dribbling out.

This kid was fucked up and bullied and people saw that and chose to do nothing. He had plenty of warning signs evident and people chose to ignore them. He was able to walk in and buy 2 long rifles, handguns and a boatload of ammo and possibly some tactical armor and the shop sold them to him legally.

Its not just the tools that are the problem.

**leroy jenkins** · 05-26-2022, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum

Magazine size limits seem to make sense from a lot of perspectives, but IMO that cat is out of the bag. Magazines are relatively simple to manufacture, and I'm fairly sure you can 3D print them (or at least most of one) at this point. Trying to restrict access to standard military-style and larger magazines (I'm not willing to call a 30-round magazine "large capacity" when that's the standard for the class of firearm) would, again IMO, only affect the most by the book owners and provide the possibility of additional charges when one of the more radical types got arrested for something else.

Case in point: Vermont banned the sale or import to the state of rifle magazines over 10 rounds, and to date, the only widely reported case where they enforced the law was against a white supremacist who was also facing other charges for threatening, and they were able to get witnesses to discuss his trip out of state to buy the magazines.

I can't speak to the veracity of the suggestion, but I've also seen it said that in the event reloading becomes too hard, it's also possible to carry a bunch of revolvers and just keep switching guns. That sounds plausible to me.

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The sheriffs departments are the ones who sued to have the unenforceable mag ban overturned in Co. They failed, now you've got this weird ass situation where stores openly sell technically illegal mags and everyone looks the other way because they never wanted to enforce it in the first place and it was just soem sort of experiment by the national Dem party.

Should have just kept them legal the current situation is not an improvement.

**leroy jenkins** · 05-26-2022, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Semi and obviously full auto everything is probably not "necessary" for any non LEO individual who isn't prepping for a civil war. They're fun and certainly essential for law enforcement though. The notion of personal sidearms, even not semi auto is another can of worms. Probably only "necessary" for folks who have a dangerous job like bounty hunter or repo .. and folks who lave a legit violent stalker restraining order .

But as for everyone else.. Plenty of folks are just legit scared of strangers (potential criminals, assailants) and afraid to go out in the real world without a gun.. Some are on a power trip, embolden to no longer be nice to strangers and speak their minds so to speak.. i.e. bullies.. How do we tell them apart?

Or lots of people are just trusting enough of their fellow citizens they are fine with them owning guns. Personally I think we should give every immigrant an ar15 and a green card, I'm fine with trusting my neighbors and feel no narcissistic desire to assert control over strangers, and see no reason to think that is what will solve our problems. It will only make them more complicated and harder to enforce and worse.

**mcphee** · 05-26-2022, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

If you read what I am saying, the current laws don't make any sense. If I wanted a toy quickly, I would've bought the pistol version. I don't care about the wait. I think the wait is a good thing, even if its 30% of what it used to be.

Hence the reason I think all "assault weapons" (which needs more definition) should be Class 3. I don't like to tell people what they need or don't need. It's not really my business. However, if you want access to dangerous shit you need to go through some hoops. They aren't even hoops really. It's just the ATF making sure you aren't a felon or on a list.

I like that you’re addressing the issue that any dipshit can buy a high powered weapon WAY too easily and quickly. How do you and other gun hobbyists/recreational users feel about my and others ideas on real registries and insurance requirements for all firearms? If the responsible gun owners aren’t the problem, then they surely wouldn’t have an issue with sensible measures to facilitate further responsibility right?

**SumJongGuy** · 05-26-2022, 07:38 AM

People "trusting enough of their neighbors" have zero need to carry.

**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by mcphee

I like that you’re addressing the issue that any dipshit can buy a high powered weapon WAY too easily and quickly. How do you and other gun hobbyists/recreational users feel about my and others ideas on real registries and insurance requirements for all firearms? If the responsible gun owners aren’t the problem, then they surely wouldn’t have an issue with sensible measures to facilitate further responsibility right?

I have a 4th grader and she gets to go to 5th grade. I don't think there is anything worse than what happened to those kids. It's gut wrenching seeing the pictures.

Im pretty sure the ATF keeps a real registry. Im not very confident that anything will happen, but small moves will be more successful than nothing at all.

If we can all agree that the gun law route is pretty fucked, then I would imagine other options should be looked at due too better viability. Locking doors and prison are not synonymous. Real SROs and not fatty riding the desk till retirement. Perhaps a program that pays retired veterans with combat experience to provide security. I can't get into my kids school. I think locked doors are very reasonable. I lock my house.

Bullying is an issue. I've had personal experience with it and it's pretty gnarly. No parental support or professional help, kids can go two ways. This was one of them. Bullying needs more focus.

**dunfree** · 05-26-2022, 07:41 AM

Retired veterans with combat experience to patrol schools? This is fucking idiotic. What makes you think they’d be good patrolling a school?

Just performative bullshit from assholes who need their little toy. These are not serious ideas, this is pablum to waste time so nothing gets done so they can buy a few more guns before the next slaughter

**Cono Este** · 05-26-2022, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

Huh, wonder what differentiates the us from the rest of the world playing the same video game?

I think I said it.

They can play Call of Duty, then they can walk down the street and buy the same $1500 Daniel defense and a Glock 19.

It’s great marketing.

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**Bobby Stainless** · 05-26-2022, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

Retired veterans with combat experience to patrol schools? This is fucking idiotic.

Why man? Too much authority bringing down your vibe bro?

Do you have kids?

I'd have zero issue with it and I actually have children in elementary and middle school. I think you mentioned the Parkland cop running away.

**::: :::** · 05-26-2022, 08:02 AM

If bullying & mental health are the issue, then armed anybody (police, school rent a cop, veteran, school teacher) isn’t the answer

And ultimately, the problem isn’t the schools

Nor is the level of security the problem

We should be aspiring to a level of security that precludes weapons & defensive perimeters (locked, fenced, video-monitored or beyond) — that is our freedom (not some misguided notion to own weapons)

Part of that is reducing access to firearms through regulating them
Part of that is social support structures including health programs including mental health

**The AD** · 05-26-2022, 08:02 AM

Question for the gun experts here: supposedly he purchased two AR platform rifles and 375 rounds of ammo. Approximately how much would that cost?

**schuss** · 05-26-2022, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Why man? Too much authority bringing down your vibe bro?

Do you have kids?

I'd have zero issue with it and I actually have children in elementary and middle school. I think you mentioned the Parkland cop running away.

Combat vets aren't necessarily trained to be with kids and may do more damage with their other behavior during non shooting times.
Look, in this case cops were on the scene immediately and could not prevent the shooter from entering and basically sacrificed those kids by waiting 40 minutes for someone else to deal with it.
More cops is not the answer as it is already proven in this scenario (among others) to not work, because cops are humans that don't want to die. That leaves not having weapons available and other options.

**mcphee** · 05-26-2022, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

I have a 4th grader and she gets to go to 5th grade. I don't think there is anything worse than what happened to those kids. It's gut wrenching seeing the pictures.

Im pretty sure the ATF keeps a real registry. Im not very confident that anything will happen, but small moves will be more successful than nothing at all.

If we can all agree that the gun law route is pretty fucked, then I would imagine other options should be looked at due too better viability. Locking doors and prison are not synonymous. Real SROs and not fatty riding the desk till retirement. Perhaps a program that pays retired veterans with combat experience to provide security. I can't get into my kids school. I think locked doors are very reasonable. I lock my house.

Bullying is an issue. I've had personal experience with it and it's pretty gnarly. No parental support or professional help, kids can go two ways. This was one of them. Bullying needs more focus.

My daughter is 9 months old. My oldest nephew is 14. Ive had real concerns about our gun laws and ability to access firearms since before Columbine. It makes me sick to my stomach having to worry about sending kids to school. Locked from the outside doors should be required at every school and not just for school shooting concerns.

ATF keeps no registry and I don’t agree the gun law route is fucked. What’s fucked are the people who will sacrifice nothing and never admit that we have a real problem with almost unfettered access to firearms in this country. We have a societal problem here and tight restrictions and regulations need to be made and enforced on a uniform, federal level.

**leroy jenkins** · 05-26-2022, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

Question for the gun experts here: supposedly he purchased two AR platform rifles and 375 rounds of ammo. Approximately how much would that cost?

Lowest end for that is going to be about 2k with no optics, more likely about 3k.

**leroy jenkins** · 05-26-2022, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by schuss

Combat vets aren't necessarily trained to be with kids and may do more damage with their other behavior during non shooting times.
Look, in this case cops were on the scene immediately and could not prevent the shooter from entering and basically sacrificed those kids by waiting 40 minutes for someone else to deal with it.
More cops is not the answer as it is already proven in this scenario (among others) to not work, because cops are humans that don't want to die. That leaves not having weapons available and other options.

Yea cops rarely are willing to risk their lives any more. They used to be but their us and them I don't owe you shit psychology has become a lot more prevalent.

**schuss** · 05-26-2022, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by mcphee

My daughter is 9 months old. My oldest nephew is 14. Ive had real concerns about our gun laws and ability to access firearms since before Columbine. It makes me sick to my stomach having to worry about sending kids to school. Locked from the outside doors should be required at every school and not just for school shooting concerns.

ATF keeps no registry and I don’t agree the gun law route is fucked. What’s fucked are the people who will sacrifice nothing and never admit that we have a real problem with almost unfettered access to firearms in this country. We have a societal problem here and tight restrictions and regulations need to be made and enforced on a uniform, federal level.

ATF by law is not allowed to keep computerized records and registries. The laws are very fixable, you just have the entirety of the republican party (and some dems) against that out of pure rhetoric reasons. If you put walls around any attempt to understand or fix a problem, no shit it doesn't get fixed.

**The AD** · 05-26-2022, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Lowest end for that is going to be about 2k with no optics, more likely about 3k.

Thanks. Apparently the nutjob worked at Wendy's. He'd probably been saving all his money toward this end for a long time.

**fantastic_damage** · 05-26-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by schuss

ATF by law is not allowed to keep computerized records and registries. The laws are very fixable, you just have the entirety of the republican party (and some dems) against that out of pure rhetoric reasons. If you put walls around any attempt to understand or fix a problem, no shit it doesn't get fixed.

We're in the stone ages as far as any kind of trace or registry, this is by design per the influence of the NRA:

https://youtu.be/rMQ2b6ZwwCU

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**BobMc** · 05-26-2022, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

Thanks. Apparently the nutjob worked at Wendy's. He'd probably been saving all his money toward this end for a long time.

He had two AR's, one of which was a Daniel Defense with an Eotech on it. The cheapest Daniel Defense is $1870, the Eotech goes for about $600. Not sure what the other brand was but figure at least a grand. The kid had 4-5 grand in guns and ammo, so yeah, that'd take a while.