If only there was something we could do...

[BobMc]

I would've thought, but a guy I know from motorcycling--who, for what it's worth, is decidedly not a GOP member had an issue with his primary duck gun (not even an AR) and couldn't get the parts he needed until after his long-planned trip was underway. He happened to have a backup gun, but he made a pretty good case in terms of significant waiting periods presenting very real issues for uses (hunting) that most people don't take issue with.

Another guy I know went to do a final sight in the day before leaving for deer camp and realized the powered scope on his AR wasn't working (which he had been planning to use as his deer rifle, with an appropriate magazine). Again, he happened to have another rifle that was good to go, but if he hadn't and couldn't get the AR scope going, being able to walk into an outdoors store in just-West-of-nowhere and walk out with a functional rifle would've saved the trip.

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Really? Your “friend” had a shotgun that “broke” and ruined his hunt? Then another friend had a “powered” scope that wouldn’t “work” and he couldn’t hunt deer.

Maybe you should find friends that really know how guns work. Nobody is putting waiting periods on firearm parts. If your friend is humping an AR around the woods with a lighted reticle optic perhaps he should learn to shoot?

Seriously, it sounds like you really don’t have a clue. I own quite a few guns, including a couple of AR’s, I’m at that point where I’m getting fine with them going away.

[The AD]

I apologize if this has been mentioned. Hard to keep up:

UVALDE, Texas — The gunman who killed 19 children and two teachers in a rural Texas elementary school on Tuesday entered the building despite being confronted by an armed school security officer, then wounded two responding police officers and engaged in a standoff inside the school for over an hour, state police officials said.

(emphasis mine)

[Pow4Brains]

Make a musket or blunderbuss the only legal powder filled weapons to own will solve this.


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[neufox47]

I would've thought, but a guy I know from motorcycling--who, for what it's worth, is decidedly not a GOP member had an issue with his primary duck gun (not even an AR) and couldn't get the parts he needed until after his long-planned trip was underway. He happened to have a backup gun, but he made a pretty good case in terms of significant waiting periods presenting very real issues for uses (hunting) that most people don't take issue with.

Another guy I know went to do a final sight in the day before leaving for deer camp and realized the powered scope on his AR wasn't working (which he had been planning to use as his deer rifle, with an appropriate magazine). Again, he happened to have another rifle that was good to go, but if he hadn't and couldn't get the AR scope going, being able to walk into an outdoors store in just-West-of-nowhere and walk out with a functional rifle would've saved the trip.

Now, if you want to talk about the right-wing resistance to using modern tech to improve background checks, that's another angle that could easily help differentiate between someone who has previously been cleared and someone who has not.

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Easy. There should be an application and skill test to own a gun. Just like to drive a car. Application process should be electronic and revokable for cause. Waiting period would be built into the application and you don’t have to wait again for a second or third gun. Require all gun transfers, even private party, to document transfer and who received the gun. Ban all high capacity magazines.

None of that will happen in the next decade.

I doubt many of these shooters would attempt it if the gun they had access to was a 5 shot rifle, shotgun or pistol.

[neufox47]

I apologize if this has been mentioned. Hard to keep up:


(emphasis mine)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/26/11014...o-texas-school

UVALDE, Texas — Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman's rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

"Go in there! Go in there!" nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.


NATIONAL
While the gun control debate amplifies, the overwhelming emotion in Uvalde is grief
Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

"Let's just rush in because the cops aren't doing anything like they are supposed to," he said. "More could have been done."

"They were unprepared," he added.

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.

Officials say he "encountered" a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.

He "barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom," Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. "It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter."

All those killed were in the same classroom, he said.

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told reporters that 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer to when the tactical team shot him, though a department spokesman said later that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

"The bottom line is law enforcement was there," McCraw said. "They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom."

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

Sponsor Message

Carranza said the officers should have entered the school sooner.

"There were more of them. There was just one of him," he said.

Uvalde is a largely Latino town of some 16,000 people about 75 miles (120 kilometers) from the Mexican border. Robb Elementary, which has nearly 600 students in second, third and fourth grades, is a single-story brick structure in a mostly residential neighborhood of modest homes.

Here's what Matthew McConaughey said about the shooting in his hometown
UVALDE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL SHOOTING
Here's what Matthew McConaughey said about the shooting in his hometown
Before attacking the school, Ramos shot and wounded his grandmother at the home they shared, authorities said.

Neighbor Gilbert Gallegos, 82, who lives across the street and has known the family for decades, said he was puttering in his yard when he heard the shots.

Ramos ran out the front door and across the small yard to the truck parked in front of the house. He seemed panicked, Gallegos said, and had trouble getting the truck out of park.

Then he raced away: "He spun out, I mean fast," spraying gravel in the air.

His grandmother emerged covered in blood: "She says, 'Berto, this is what he did. He shot me.'" She was hospitalized.

Gallegos, whose wife called 911, said he had heard no arguments before or after the shots, and knew of no history of bullying or abuse of Ramos, who he rarely saw.

Investigators also shed no light on Ramos' motive for the attack, which also left at least 17 people wounded. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Ramos, a resident of the small town about 85 miles (135 kilometers) west of San Antonio, had no known criminal or mental health history.

"We don't see a motive or catalyst right now," said McCraw of the Department of Public Safety.

Ramos legally bought the rifle and a second one like it last week, just after his birthday, authorities said.

About a half-hour before the mass shooting, Ramos sent the first of three online messages warning about his plans, Abbott said.

[neufox47]

Holy fuck multiple cops didn’t pursue him into the school! Fuck the coward cops. Fuck Texas. Fuck the argument that we just need more security.


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[bennymac]

Hmm imagine if you took away some of the bloated budget funds of this super helpful police force and put that into things like better mental health resources for teenagers.

Just need a slogan to go with this plan

[liv2ski]

Other countries have responded aggressively to their own gun problems with success. In Scotland, after a similar school shooting in 1996, lawmakers banned private ownership of handguns and automatic weapons. There haven’t been any school shootings since. And in dealing with its own gun violence problems in the 1990s, Australia took and destroyed roughly 650,000 guns from private citizens as part of a buyback program. Rates of gun homicides and suicides plummeted.

[dunfree]

restricted access means fewer, monitored entry(s) - other 'entries (of convenience) ' become emergency Only exits ( by Safety (Fire) code, those Exits Must be available. )but they don't have to be available as Entrances.

This is Not that hard
( the hard part is going to get people to not object to their (community's) School's architecture being altered
( Because it will not be attractive or historic )


it's Not too many doors.
it is too many Entry points ! !!


tj

so choke points to slaughter the kids in the morning and afternoon. Great idea. Maybe hire a few more worthless cops who’ll fail to engage a gunman, too? This sounds so useful.

I can’t believe people are serious about this. It’s utterly stupid and unserious. It’s failed with other school shootings.

[liv2ski]

Yup, unless the guns are destroyed everything else is just pissing against a hurricane

[MakersTeleMark]

Unless there is a murder charge with a death penalty for shitty parenting, nothing will change.

[anotherVTskibum]

Other countries have responded aggressively to their own gun problems with success. In Scotland, after a similar school shooting in 1996, lawmakers banned private ownership of handguns and automatic weapons. There haven’t been any school shootings since. And in dealing with its own gun violence problems in the 1990s, Australia took and destroyed roughly 650,000 guns from private citizens as part of a buyback program. Rates of gun homicides and suicides plummeted.

The data from other places is clear about what kind of solution would work, kinda like with health care. Unfortunately, there's roughly zero chance of the US doing something just because we've proved empirically that our way of doing it kills a lot more people than the ways that other countries do things.

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[skiJ]

so choke points to slaughter the kids in the morning and afternoon. Great idea. Maybe hire a few more worthless cops who’ll fail to engage a gunman, too? This sounds so useful.

I can’t believe people are serious about this. It’s utterly stupid and unserious. It’s failed with other school shootings.

seems to be working at courthouses across the country -

in multiple posts yesterday, I repeated clearly, I am promoting changing facilities design and operation, Not staffing schools with armed guards ;

I support gun regulation too -
citizens don't need assault weapons ( nor access to assault weapons). ;

I'll look back dunfree - what solution are you advocating (?)

gun control (?)
how has that worked over the last 23 years --

mental health (?)
we seem to be at a point where people are willing to talk about mental health - and talking about anything, changes nothing.


... so I went back three pages, dunfree - lots of sniping, no ideas -
' great values are we teaching ten year olds! Is it worth trying!? '
was a personal favorite. Thank you.

armed guards ? no.
Safer designs And citizen involvement --

and you keep sniping from you keypad.


I hope you have a great day. skiJ

[skiJ]

just own you need death and failure and oppression of other to feel better about your pathetic existence

( lovely.

Thank you for your contributions to this discussion -- )

skiJ

[schuss]

so choke points to slaughter the kids in the morning and afternoon. Great idea. Maybe hire a few more worthless cops who’ll fail to engage a gunman, too? This sounds so useful.

I can’t believe people are serious about this. It’s utterly stupid and unserious. It’s failed with other school shootings.

Don't forget about the Parkland cop who ran away when he heard shots. More police are less than useless as they'll eat up funds meant for teaching and at least a few will assault students for racist/sexist reasons.

The GOP has systematically blocked research, computerization of records and any attempts to improve the situation. There's increasingly high piles of dead kids and adults as a result of nothing being done and nothing will change as long as states like Texas keep pulling the lever for them.

[Summer]

And in dealing with its own gun violence problems in the 1990s, Australia took and destroyed roughly 650,000 guns from private citizens as part of a buyback program. Rates of gun homicides and suicides plummeted.

Here'a a fun trip down memory lane.

John Howard was a heavily conservative prime minister. He was the one who made the decision to take the guns. Predictably, the super pro-gun nutters lost their shit and organised mass protests. Johnny boy decided it would be a good idea to give a speech to them at one of their rallies.

At this rally, one of his security detail made a last-minute suggestion that he might want to wear a bulletproof vest under his shirt as someone had threatened to shoot him while on stage. We ended up with this iconic photo as a result.



And who, might you ask, were some of the people in the crowd?



Oddly enough, you tend to find a fair few of this mob now belong to a political party called the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party. They're a hard right party that thinks hard right things, like climate change is a hoax. They even have members of their party elected into the state legislature. But as an official policy position, publicly available on their website:



Even our far right nutters think your gun laws are fucked.

[Bobby Stainless]

I doubt many of these shooters would attempt it if the gun they had access to was a 5 shot rifle, shotgun or pistol.

I don't think theses are reasonable people we are discussing. The VA Tech shooter had a 9mm handgun. He was using a 33 round mag, but mags are easy to change.

Probably should just say revolvers only.

[mcphee]

WHAtAbOuT the Va TeCH sHoOtER?

The only sensible thing you’ve ever said is a Class 3 designation for ARs and other high powered rifle.

Class 3 designation for ARs and similiar firearms. Federal, State, Local registry for ALL firearms to be transferred with sale of firearm, jail time and fines for not reporting stolen/lost firearms. Insurance requirement for ALL firearms.

[Bobby Stainless]

( lovely.

Thank you for your contributions to this discussion -- )

skiJ

Dunfree is still mad TGR fired him.

[Bobby Stainless]

WHAtAbOuT the Va TeCH sHoOtER?

Well he used a handgun. Handguns kill more people by an extremely large margin.

I'm not sure if he means a 5 shot pistol or not. Even still, it's really easy to change a mag.

Regardless. The VA Tech shooter killed many more with a 9mm handgun.

Most people are buying AR15 pistols anyhow.

[schuss]

I don't think theses are reasonable people we are discussing.

It's more - with a bolt action or small pistol it's significantly harder to do as much damage quickly and it makes them easier to take down.

[mcphee]

Well he used a handgun. Handguns kill more people by an extremely large margin.

I'm not sure if he means a 5 shot pistol or not. Even still, it's really easy to change a mag.

Regardless. The VA Tech shooter killed many more with a 9mm handgun.

Yea, because he brought 20 loaded magazines.

[cinnepa]

Easy. There should be an application and skill test to own a gun. Just like to drive a car. Application process should be electronic and revokable for cause. Waiting period would be built into the application and you don’t have to wait again for a second or third gun. Require all gun transfers, even private party, to document transfer and who received the gun. Ban all high capacity magazines.

None of that will happen in the next decade.

I doubt many of these shooters would attempt it if the gun they had access to was a 5 shot rifle, shotgun or pistol.

agreed, a start at least....not everyone will be happy but concessions have to be made by either side if we want to improve the current process for gun ownership. or as you said - nothing will change......and unfortunately i think that's where we're headed. egos over regulations.

[Bobby Stainless]

It's more - with a bolt action or small pistol it's significantly harder to do as much damage quickly and it makes them easier to take down.

Oh really. He could've done the same thing with this.

[Bobby Stainless]

Yea, because he brought 20 loaded magazines.

I don't think that is accurate. I think he had a 33 round mag. But you make my point for me. Easy to carry lots of mags.

The only sensible thing you’ve ever said is a Class 3 designation for ARs and other high powered rifle.

Class 3 designation for ARs and similiar firearms. Federal, State, Local registry for ALL firearms to be transferred with sale of firearm, jail time and fines for not reporting stolen/lost firearms. Insurance requirement for ALL firearms.

Im pretty sure I said it in the Parkland thread.