If only there was something we could do...

[jono]

FWIW, schools are going to continue the hardening process that started after Columbine. I don't think anyone is actually opposed to that as much as they are opposed that being the only solution. Or maybe it's lamenting the need for more security, more SWAT, more militaristic solutions.

It's more an argument of competitive narratives. One side wants stricter gun control laws while the other wants to increase security casting the shooting as a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

And that's what is wrong. "One side" this and the "other" that as an entrenched narrative is wrong and harmful. Unless the only goal is "winning" at domestic politics. Which is the wrong goal.

[concretejungle]

FWIW, schools are going to continue the hardening process that started after Columbine. I don't think anyone is actually opposed to that as much as they are opposed that being the only solution. Or maybe it's lamenting the need for more security, more SWAT, more militaristic solutions.

It's more an argument about competing narratives. One side wants stricter gun control laws while the other wants to increase security casting the shooting as a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

I'm only here to point out that the narrative that school hardening began after Columbine is incorrect. I'm not trying to infer that people here have had privileged upbringings (myself included) but police officers at schools and locked doors/closed campuses were a thing before Columbine. It was a thing at my high school and probably the schools I attended before that but I can't remember for certain.

[MultiVerse]

How big was the city/town where you went to school? I was still in high school in a smallish ~25K Midwestern city in the early 90s before Columbine and at the time there was no security, no locked doors. We didn't bring guns to school but we routinely had guns in our cars to go dove, pheasant, deer hunting after school.

Whereas today Uvalde's population is only 16K and people are rightly criticizing the school for lax security and their SWAT team for not being more combat effective.

[concretejungle]

How big the city/town where you went to school? I was still in high school in a smallish ~25k Midwestern city in the early 90s before Columbine and at the time there was no security, no locked doors. We didn't bring guns to school but we routinely had guns in our cars to go dove, pheasant, deer hunting after school.

I just checked the population and the county was 750k at the time and in metro DC (3 million population around that time). At the time it was probably and probably still is considered the "roughest" county in the area but by no means was I going to school in a war zone.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Did I see you on The Wire?

[concretejungle]

Did I see you on The Wire?

Because it sounds to you like I went to school in the ghetto and not one of, if not the richest black counties in the US?

[skiJ]

And that's what is wrong. "One side" this and the "other" that as an entrenched narrative is wrong and harmful. Unless the only goal is "winning" at domestic politics. Which is the wrong goal.

+1. Thank you. tj

[Bobby Stainless]

“Better gun control policies never get pushed through because random strangers from the general public don’t know enough about guns to debate the merits of these policies” is either hall of fame level stupidity or just a dishonest and lazy dismissal.

Bobby when you get through your weed withdrawal maybe weigh in on which it is. Watch Trainspotting for tips on how to get through it.

If you are calling for automatic weapons to get banned, then you might need to brush up on your gun laws. If you can't correctly identify a gun from a magazine, you might need to brush up on your gun knowledge. If you constantly repeat "semi automatic hi cap guns", then you might want to define what you are trying to ban.

Or don't.

I'm basing my opinion on the anti gun crowd here at TGR. Car forums are usually full of the other side.

I appreciate your concern. Day drinking fills in the gap nicely. I'm not nearly as sharp though.

[MultiVerse]

I just checked the population and the county was 750k at the time and in metro DC (3 million population around that time). At the time it was probably and probably still is considered the "roughest" county in the area but by no means was I going to school in a war zone.

Yeah, I attended elementary school in the Norfolk area and there was more fencing, more concern about kids walking home alone. It's probably a distinction without a difference but security was more about crime than it was about mass shootings.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Because it sounds to you like I went to school in the ghetto and not one of, if not the richest black counties in the US?

Didn't sound to me like either one. Was just fucking around based on the D.C. proximity. Say hi to Omar and McNulty.

[ill-advised strategy]

[bennymac]

If you are calling for automatic weapons to get banned, then you might need to brush up on your gun laws. If you can't correctly identify a gun from a magazine, you might need to brush up on your gun knowledge. If you constantly repeat "semi automatic hi cap guns", then you might want to define what you are trying to ban.

Or don't.

I'm basing my opinion on the anti gun crowd here at TGR. Car forums are usually full of the other side.

I appreciate your concern. Day drinking fills in the gap nicely. I'm not nearly as sharp though.

Oh sorry I didn’t make it clear enough for you - I’m not arguing that the general public - or TGR posters - are educated and informed about gun details.

I don’t know shit about how a commercial airliner is built either. But I’m in support of experts developing policies to make flying safe. I don’t need to know the difference between ailerons and flaps to support that.

Yeah some people online don’t know the difference between a magazine and a gun. Some people think AR stands for assault rifle. You like to look down your nose at these people. Cool hobby I guess.

Regardless it’s a stupid fucking argument that the general public needs more gun knowledge before sensible gun laws can be put it place. It’s not the general public writing those laws anymore than it is the general public driving commercial airline safety regulations.

You either know this is a stupid fucking argument and you’re just using it as a lazy excuse because it will never come true therefore you get to wave it all off - or you think it’s a good argument in which case you are an idiot and I should just not argue with you as that’s not fair.

[Bunion 2020]

When I was in HS in 1975 the vast majority of the doors were locked and could only be opened from inside.

I'm basing my opinion on the anti gun crowd here at TGR

Its not an anti-gun crowd, it is an anti gun violence crowd, too bad you are so impaired you cannot understand the difference.

[Bobby Stainless]

The politicians know less than the general public.

I think our President said to just blast a couple of shot gun shells into the air.

Its not an anti-gun crowd, it is an anti gun violence crowd, too bad you are so impaired you cannot understand the difference.

No. It's an anti-gun crowd.

Im glad you chose to have your cake and eat it too. Must be nice to choose both sides.

[Conundrum]

If you are calling for automatic weapons to get banned, then you might need to brush up on your gun laws. If you can't correctly identify a gun from a magazine, you might need to brush up on your gun knowledge. If you constantly repeat "semi automatic hi cap guns", then you might want to define what you are trying to ban.

Or don't.

I'm basing my opinion on the anti gun crowd here at TGR. Car forums are usually full of the other side.

I appreciate your concern. Day drinking fills in the gap nicely. I'm not nearly as sharp though.

Geeze, I thought you were knowledgeable. The weapons system is a combination of the firing mechanism and the capacity and delivery method of the ammunition. A semi automatic rifle with 30 rd mags would be considered a system. Drop the booze and get back on the dope. You’re slipping.

[Bobby Stainless]

Cops can't stop the guns we have in society now. Apparently a woman with a pistol can.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ty/9975381002/

CHARLESTON, W.Va. — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in Charleston, police said in a statement.
The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

[MultiVerse]

Last night our previous president read the names of the dead to the accompaniment of Taco Bell commercial and then danced afterwards.

Cops can't stop the guns we have in society now. Apparently a woman with a pistol can.

Good for her. We should also make it harder for criminals to acquire guns:

Police say Dennis Butler was shot to death by an armed citizen when he opened fire with an AR-15 assault rifle at the Vista View Apartment complex.

Court records indicate as a convicted felon Butler was not entitled to own any guns. He was also wanted by deputies on a misdemeanor charge of transferring and receiving stolen goods from earlier this year. Kanawha magistrate court records show some 20 arrests for local charges.

Butler was approached earlier in the evening about speeding in the apartment complex while children were playing. Hunt said Butler then left the complex in a vehicle and returned a short time later when the shooting occurred.

“He returned with a firearm, an AR style rifle, and fired in the direction of the crowd,” he said.

It’s unknown if there was intent of where to shoot, Hunt said.

[Bobby Stainless]

Geeze, I thought you were knowledgeable. The weapons system is a combination of the firing mechanism and the capacity and delivery method of the ammunition. A semi automatic rifle with 30 rd mags would be considered a system. Drop the booze and get back on the dope. You’re slipping.

Lol. Ok.

[bennymac]

The politicians know less than the general public.

Lazy or stupid…still unclear but I’m leaning towards stupid.

[Bobby Stainless]

Lazy or stupid…still unclear but I’m leaning towards stupid.

“You don’t need an AR-15. It’s harder to aim, it’s harder to use”; people buy AR-15s because they’re the “Ferrari” of firearms; and “Use a shotgun [on] someone invading your home — you don’t kill your kids. Use an AR-15, it goes through your wall and it can kill your kid in the bedroom.”

You put a lot of trust in the DC "experts".

[dunfree]

Lazy or stupid…still unclear but I’m leaning towards stupid.

por que no los dos!?

[bennymac]

“You don’t need an AR-15. It’s harder to aim, it’s harder to use”; people buy AR-15s because they’re the “Ferrari” of firearms; and “Use a shotgun [on] someone invading your home — you don’t kill your kids. Use an AR-15, it goes through your wall and it can kill your kid in the bedroom.”

You put a lot of trust in the DC "experts".

You think Mitch McConnel, Joe Biden, or Donald Trump know anything about guns? What about commercial airliner construction?

I’d wager they know jack shit about either.

Do you understand how the works works?

[Bobby Stainless]

You think Mitch McConnel, Joe Biden, or Donald Trump know anything about guns? What about commercial airliner construction?

I’d wager they know jack shit about either.

Do you understand how the works works?

Its hard to get the other side to take you seriously, when the figure head of the movement suggest blasting shotgun shells off the front porch.

[dunfree]

I'm only here to point out that the narrative that school hardening began after Columbine is incorrect. I'm not trying to infer that people here have had privileged upbringings (myself included) but police officers at schools and locked doors/closed campuses were a thing before Columbine. It was a thing at my high school and probably the schools I attended before that but I can't remember for certain.

i don’t think the closed campus/sro efforts then were aimed at deterring shootings more at controlling students.

until there’s some consistent factual information on this im not sure what could should have been done. The notion that there may have been twelve minutes of gunfire outside the school but doors didn’t get locked seems bullshit or systemic failure.

[Bobby Stainless]

i don’t think the closed campus/sro efforts then were aimed at deterring shootings

It seems that is still the case.