If only there was something we could do...

[detrusor]

I agree totally w the above.

In countries that banned assault rifles and pump shotguns after mass shooting gun deaths went down drastically in the following decade. It’s not rocket dentistry. If your argument for guns goes anywhere past “ but I like guns!” You need a real dose of reality.


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[chaka]

Look at this thread. Look at the responses.
This is all lip service.

Nothing is going to change in this country. Everyone is out for themselves here. Caring about others has become too problematic. Americans will blame anything they can do as to not feel any responsibility.

I’m disgusted with humans right now.

I'm just disgusted with americans right now. NZ gets it

That same night, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern condemned the shooting, as both a politician and a mother, in an appearance on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. After two consecutive mosque shootings in 2019, New Zealand collected thousands of weapons through a nationwide buyback, and lawmakers voted to ban almost all semi-automatic weapons.

When asked by Colbert how the country was able to take that step, Ardern described New Zealanders as "very pragmatic people."

“When we saw something like that happen, everyone said never again, and so it was incumbent on us as politicians to respond to that," she said. "Now, we have legitimate needs for guns in our country, for things like pest control and to protect our biodiversity — but you don’t need a military-style semi-automatic to do that.”

[riser4]

reading comprehension.

You and leroy should be kicked in your cunts

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0650b15...9-f9f40325accb

[TahoeJ]

I no longer care about arguing with people about universal background checks, abortions, climate change, etc. It doesn't work. Simply volunteer to help get voters out in mass in a few Senate swing states and these assholes (a controlling minority) are completely marginalized. We're so close it's only a matter of a time, but the sooner the better. It's the only realistic solution. Not saying the Democrats are perfect by any means, but at least they aren't the GOP.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Word.

Congressional race here in MT for a new seat created after the last Census. Choice looks like Ryan Zinke VS a D.

There are some interesting candidates. Monica Tranel looks to be the best of the lot from the D side. https://monicatranel.com/issues/

The thought of Ryan Zinke back in the house brings anger to the surface. Really? Ryan FUCKING Zinke? https://www.google.com/search?client...+FUCKING+Zinke

[SumJongGuy]

I'm absolutely 100% PRO 2nd Amendment... the whole thing, not just the last sentence..

Second Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I'm 100% in favor of well regulated STATE MILITA and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (as long as it's for that purpose and being well regulated) .

SCOTUS got it 100% wrong with Heller extending that right to individuals unaffiliated with any documented, well regulated State militia.

[skiJ]

see yours, LSL - Thank you.

I still believe school Safety is part of the equation.

I support ideas about regulation of firearms, and the belief that citizens should be allowed firearms that are intended to kill people just leaves me cold. including firearm "collectors" .

buses and guns is a False comparison, unless one is claiming children are being killed with buses intentionally And I do not believe you are.


I am sad for what has happened to the usofa -
I believe there were some good things that were done in the aftermath of 9-11 that thwarted further attacks,
I really have to go back to the exploration of Space to see an achievement that I believe merits National pride
( I see another - but the critics would howl. )

A nation divided cannot stand.

a decade ago, I read Sandburg's 'Lincoln', trying to find a sense of the Man.
what I found was largely a chronology of events...
I don't know if the current social climate would allow a leader. Maybe we are left to our individuality
( I appreciate that. )

I would support more gun regulation. and safer schools ( facility operation, Not armed guards. )


good luck. tj

[PNWbrit]

I see fewer guns and more restrictions as the best answer. The appropriate changes likely require amending or reinterpreting the 2nd amendment. The founders were reasonable people, and the current level of gun violence is unreasonable. They would do something different and so should we.

Less panic may also be appropriate. Do school shooters kill more kids than school buses? There's a lot of folks who (wrongly) believe guns are more necessary to society than buses, so it'll be difficult to get rid of guns quickly. Every kid dying is surely a tragedy. While many of us think those dying to shooters are unnecessary tragedy, the scale of tragedy is similar to kids killed by school buses.

Guns and cars cause a similar amount of death. If we have to keep guns for now, perhaps we should regulate them similarly. Registration, insurance, training, regulations on where and how they can be used - similar policies could work for both.

Meanwhile, for the 2A fans (fan as in fantasy), keep working the idea that their (peashooter) assault weapon doesn't do crap against an Abrams. If the 2A doesn't include the full modern arsenal including the Abrams and nuclear missiles, it's not useful against modern tyrannical governments. The 2A tyranny prevention myth is just that. Methinks it's primarily a marketing meme.

School bus passenger deaths in school bus-related crashes, United States, 2010-2020

2010 10
2011 4
2012 8
2013 6
2014 7
2015 5
2016 9
2017 4
2018 9
2019 4
2020 1

Source National Safety Council

So that's no, not similar at all.

[skiJ]

I'm absolutely 100% PRO 2nd Amendment... the whole thing, not just the last sentence..



I'm 100% in favor of well regulated STATE MILITA and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (as long as it's for that purpose and being well regulated) .

SCOTUS got it 100% wrong with Heller extending that right to individuals unaffiliated with any documented, well regulated State militia.

My thought is if one thinks gun rights is about the Second amendment, one has the right to join the National Guard...

( if one thinks it gives one the right to amass a personal armory see the comments up-thread about the plagues of Fear and plague of Hate... )


tj

[senior researcher]

Keeping the slaves in check is what the 2nd amendment is all about. Fuck you all you 2a types. I have some SAKO copper 06 ammo coming in the mail today. Tranel was a aid to Burns, in his knee walking drunk days. Somehow she is the reasonable choice. The USA is exceptionally self centered and diluted.

[ötzi]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/03/u...elections.html

Do more than nothing.

[SumJongGuy]

My thought is if you think gun rights is about the Second amendment, You have the right to join the National Guard...

( if you think it gives you the right to amass a personal armory see the comments up-thread about the plagues of Fear and plague of Hate... )


tj

The 2nd A is about "arms" I think of "arms" as weapons of war, not tools designed to hunt game.. Back to the no high body count designed firearms in the hands of random unregulated folks..

re trying to say if we ban guns people will just use cars trucks, knives, bats, etc.. We give up far less net social utility banning semi auto weapons than we do banning cars and knives for citizens. Definitely not apples to apples to say we have to ban xyz if we ban guns.. No, we don't. We only need to ban the things that are strictly recreational but highly dangerous if repurposed to harm others. Banning legit productivity tools is totally different than banning recreational stuff..

[MultiVerse]

There's a lot of discussion in this thread about the fact mass shootings account for only a small portion of gun deaths. Mass shootings on the other hand also evoke large policy responses but not in a way most outside observers might expect. Instead of increasing gun control, mass shootings in America result in a loosening of gun restrictions.

In reality Democrat-controlled legislatures tend not to enact restrictions after a mass shooting while Republican-controlled legislatures loosen restrictions: "when looking at bills that were actually enacted into law, the impact of mass shootings depends on the party in power. The annual number of laws that loosen gun restrictions doubles in the year following a mass shooting in states with Republican-controlled legislatures. We find no significant effect of mass shootings on laws enacted when there is a Democrat-controlled legislature, nor do we find a significant effect of mass shootings on the enactment of laws that tighten gun restrictions. " + "This effect increases with the extent of media coverage."

Source: https://www.nber.org/papers/w26187

[The AD]

re trying to say if we ban guns people will just use cars trucks, knives, bats, etc.. We give up far less net social utility banning semi auto weapons than we do banning cars and knives for citizens. Definitely not apples to apples to say we have to ban xyz if we ban guns.. No, we don't. We only need to ban the things that are strictly recreational but highly dangerous if repurposed to harm others. Banning legit productivity tools is totally different than banning recreational stuff..

Reminds me of the quote "don't let perfect be the enemy of good." Yes, there are people who will still manage to kill innocent people without guns, but I predict it would be a whole lot less.

[JimmyCarter]

Not sure if it's been posted yet this go around, but helpful viewing

[hutash]

Maybe the solution is to give the GOP carte blanche for a solution. Give them,say, five years, and if they haven't solved the shootings, they have to give the dems.five years of legislative carte blanche.

No doubt we will be sacrificing a lot of.people, including kids, but save millions(?) In the long run.

[Bunion 2020]

Reminds me of the quote "don't let perfect be the enemy of good." Yes, there are people who will still manage to kill innocent people without guns, but I predict it would be a whole lot less.

Having to smash 8 year olds in the head with a framing hammer sounds difficult. Even going full bore Jack Torrance with an axe is beyond the ability of most maniacs bent on mayhem. Only way to perpetrate mass murder on the scale we are now so used to seeing is with a gun. Sure you could do something with a bomb but explosives are highly regulated. Oh, right.

Tranel was a aid to Burns, in his knee walking drunk days.( 4 months in 2005/06) Somehow she is the reasonable choice( Well there is Neuman and a dead guy). The USA is exceptionally self centered and diluted. (you are not wrong)

[muted reborn]

I don't like the dehumanization of murder victims into stats and percentages that look small and tidy and therefore it's an argument to not change our country. There are more victims of these shootings than simply who is killed. It goes beyond their relatives, it even affects people who have never met the victims.

And I don't buy the 'against tyranny' or 'home protection' arguments - I've met, am friends and hung out with you gun guys, let's get real on why you want your rights. People want to shoot guns for fun and feel macho - but they hide behind the argument of needing guns to protect their families and not let the government take over, and they are not going to sacrifice their fun (I mean their rights) for anyone because look at the small percentages guys! Look at how everything that tried to regulate guns has failed! Let's keep things as they are so I have the right to play with guns! My hands are tied!

And thanks PNWBrit for the link - I'll look into it later.

[ticketchecker]

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[Conundrum]

I've met, am friends and hung out with you gun guys, let's get real on why you want your rights. People want to shoot guns for fun and feel macho - but they hide behind the argument of needing guns to protect their families and not let the government take over, and they are not going to sacrifice their fun (I mean their rights)

I just want a couple bolt action hunting rifles for deer and elk (I do have some inherited family heirlooms and revolvers but don't "need" any of them). If it came down to a gun ban, I could still hunt with my bow and would be a bit grumpy but still turn in my stuff. I think both sides need to watch their alienating generalizations as I am one who has written and called my legislators for stronger firearm controls.

[schuss]

I just want a couple bolt action hunting rifles for deer and elk. If it came down to a gun ban, I could still hunt with my bow and would be a bit grumpy but still turn in my stuff. I think both sides need to watch their alienating generalizations as I am one who has written and called my legislators for stronger firearm controls.

I don't think anyone is coming for bolt actions or advocating for that.

[Harry]

^^^ Word.

Congressional race here in MT for a new seat created after the last Census. Choice looks like Ryan Zinke VS a D.

There are some interesting candidates. Monica Tranel looks to be the best of the lot from the D side. https://monicatranel.com/issues/

The thought of Ryan Zinke back in the house brings anger to the surface. Really? Ryan FUCKING Zinke? https://www.google.com/search?client...+FUCKING+Zinke

MIND = BLOWN.

I know both of them very well. As in, first name basis and both parties recognize each other walking down the street.

I guess that’s the beauty of living a long time in a state with a low population.

Monica is cool. She was living in Missoula and was loosely in my circle of friends. I always thought the working for Conrad Burns thing was weird, as she clearly did not aline with his politics, but she explained it away as great work experience. You could tell she was going places. Glad to hear life has been good to her. She bought my Jeep CJ-5 from me.

And Ryan was in the Navy with me. We lived in the same barracks together and sometimes sat at the same table for meals. He was a stereotypical dumb jock, and I am surprised he has attained the level he has.

And the two of them are running against each other for congress ? Unreal.


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[I've seen black diamonds!]

1) Guns have profound cultural significance for some people. I don't discount this. And for others they have recreational significance (like skis). I don't discount this either. Other arguments for why we need unfettered access to guns are the stuff of childish fantasies and barely disguised White supremacist fear mongering. Republicans slurp on these lies like dogs greedily licking up their own vomit. There is no point in attempting dialog or compromise with deluded zealots.

2) Republicans may be the party of White supremacy, unfettered exploitation of people, places and things, and throbbing hordes Dunning-Kruger delusionals, but the Democrats are the party of tacitly condoning institutional racism and corporate profiteering, and peddling the depressing status quo to the dopey White moderate, while being consistently out maneuvered by the bigots across the aisle. Pelosi and Schumer need to get the fuck out of the way. They're longtime losers who lack any vision or ethical backbone.

3) Our constitution is outdated drivel incapable of supporting a functioning democracy.

4) You, Canada, how are things up there? You open?

[Conundrum]

I don't think anyone is coming for bolt actions or advocating for that.

muted was basically saying anyone with a gun is overcompensating for a tiny wee wee. To further any conversations on guns in the USA, painting with those broad strokes isn't going to go far. People need to remember there is a whole bunch of people in the middle that would be fine with regulations that may prevent mass shootings. Calling those people macho and not understanding their reasons for firearm ownership is not going to help.

[leroy jenkins]

You guys can condescend people's reasons as much as you want but you're not going to be able to overturn the second, any gun control you want to actually pull off is going to be things gun owners can support, not your favorite emotionally gratifying most radical disruptive ideas. In order to do that you're going to have to come from a place of understanding your ideological adversaries and finding ways to find common cause in things you can both support. If you can't do that you should tend your own garden and vent your anger into a pillow first.

Perfect microcosm of america today.