If only there was something we could do...

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Clearly? Name any other business or group gathering place that requires drills for potential shooter scenarios

They’re all the rage at churches I’ve heard


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[bennymac]

something happened around 2005 I'd say

[skiJ]

geezus --

schools are for teaching and learning ;
elementary schools are for teaching children ;
in school, students and teachers want to Be Safe ;
schools are not for preventing Exit - actually, everyday, students and teachers Should be able to exit Safely ;

prisons are for confining prisoners.
other than 'food-and-water' ( and the elimination of bodily waste), nothing else has to happen in prison /
confine the prisoners.
prison may be a dangerous environment; guards and corrections officers know this - it is part of the job;
prisons are To PREVENT EXIT ;
prisoners and staff know there are risks to safety. Only staff may exit daily.

guns guns guns guns guns guns.


schools are not prisons.

we can do a lot better than this ;
I'm disappointed.

good luck.

Please
promote school Safety -- tj

[schindlerpiste]

I would lobby for the idea of requiring a certain level of training and completion of said training evidenced by certificate with a specific type firearm, before becoming eligible to purchase that specific class firearm. There would be different training for say a sidearm than a semi-automatic rifle. Part of the training process would be a psych eval. This would take a bit of time, but no 18 year old would be able to walk into a local sporting goods store and purchase a AK without a certificate.
Then again, I am in favor of only current and former military personnel and law enforcement to own guns.

We have a long way to go to solve the problem of purchasing guns, but the real problem is all those millions of guns already held by the public.

[frorider]

neither do I but I believe in the loss of context tone of voice and body language cues making it difficult to convey friendly levels of just fucking with you ism and those being mistaken for actually fucking with someone instead of just ribbing them a little.

Gonna break the TRG Rule #1 (never quote Leroy) to point out that many of us here ‘rib’ each other just fine, with no misunderstanding. Your off-the-cuff ramblings just come across as narcissistic wankery, and your occasional posts claiming it’s all some sort of weird troll-adjacent experiment you’re running on social media aren’t very convincing.

Occam’s razor tells us you’re just socially awkward.

Have a great day!

[MultiVerse]

Right? And you just try and buy the chemicals to make proper methamphetamine! Fucking meth heads.

In some places the pollen count is so high people are converting their meth back into Sudafed.

Attachment 417651

[frorider]

something happened around 2005 I'd say

Been seeing that graphic everywhere on social media but no source. Not saying it’s wrong, but why didn’t they list the source?

[::: :::]

skij hardening schools is not the answer; it’s misplacing the cause & solution

[Mazderati]

about five years ago, I really Decreased my critical interaction with strangers, when I realized anyone I encountered could be armed - and
I don't want to get shot for engaging.

Don't let them see your posts.

[jackstraw]

ha ha ha ha Ha --

sure, jack-
This is a Single Issue problem that will be solved as soon as You eliminate guns.

I work with 'teachers' ( the good ones are teachers. and you do you -- )
edit. jack-, you may want to review the difference between "teachers" and "educators". . .

I also work with parents --

Yes, eliminate guns. Correct.

Teachers and educators are both within our public schools and they're close cousins. What are you talking about exactly?

And you work with teachers and parents eh? Do you work with educators also? What do you do that makes you so enlightened with regard to schools?

And when the recess door goes wide open and Johnny asshole walks up with his AK, exactly what happens next? Educate me on that scenario. Or, just like Sandy Hook the doors were locked (and school doors have been locked for years) he shoot thru them, then what happens?

Yes, promote school safety which they've been doing for years and yes it can always be improved upon.

[bennymac]

Been seeing that graphic everywhere on social media but no source. Not saying it’s wrong, but why didn’t they list the source?

I believe it’s from the Financial Times and is behind a paywall

[SumJongGuy]

SJG -

Clearly, schools are not better secured than most places -
schools are a primary target.
-

Cleary you haven't been to a school in at least ten years. No one comes in except via a buzzer and camera on the other side of a locked metal door. Schools are way more secure than public retail venues, churches, concert and sports venues, etc...

What's not secure is HUMANS. A human teacher left one of those auto locked doors at the school PROPPED OPEN. That's how the shooter accessed the building. The Newton shooter used his AR15 to shred the metal around the lock of the buzzer camera access main entrance of that school. Schools try pretty hard already..

[Cono Este]

Cleary you haven't been to a school in at least ten years. No one comes in except via a buzzer and camera on the other side of a locked metal door. Schools are way more secure than public retail venues, churches, concert and sports venues, etc...

What's not secure is HUMANS. A human teacher left one of those auto locked doors at the school PROPPED OPEN. That's how the shooter accessed the building. The Newton shooter used his AR15 to shred the metal around the lock of the buzzer camera access main entrance of that school. Schools try pretty hard already..

This is true. M

In my sons 8th grade football team was an inner city kid who got caught at school with a gun. They only suspended him.

When I saw the principle one day he explained the kid had a troubled home, brother was murdered and I told him it’s only a matter of time before another school shooting makes him regret his decision not to expel.

People are fucking dumb.


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[BCMtnHound]

It shouldn’t be so hard.



Elimination – Physically remove the hazard
Substitution – Replace the hazard
Engineering controls – Isolate people from the hazard
Administrative controls – Change the way people work
Personal protective equipment– Protect the worker with PPE

We spend too much time on Engineering and Admin. Can’t ‘Eliminate’ the people obviously. But why not a bit more time in the Substitution realm.

Any conversation about PPE or the like is playing to the profit motive IMO.

[anotherVTskibum]

Cleary you haven't been to a school in at least ten years. No one comes in except via a buzzer and camera on the other side of a locked metal door. Schools are way more secure than public retail venues, churches, concert and sports venues, etc...

What's not secure is HUMANS. A human teacher left one of those auto locked doors at the school PROPPED OPEN. That's how the shooter accessed the building. The Newton shooter used his AR15 to shred the metal around the lock of the buzzer camera access main entrance of that school. Schools try pretty hard already..

I'd point out that, regardless of the concern around guns, controlling access to schools--particularly for students younger than high school--makes a lot of sense. But trying to control access so that a non-custodial parent can't easily grab a kid is a lot different than controlling access against someone with tactical gear.

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[leroy jenkins]

Is that what you and Bobby are doing, ribbing people?

No, I assume most of the people who swear at and insult me for simply disagreeing with them are somewhere between that and how they would act in real life.

[bennymac]

Is it insulting for you to be told you spout a lot of bullshit with certainty and confidence?

The few times you’ve hinted at brief moments of self awareness have been fleeting and result in zero changes to your approach - you go right back to “Dear Diary - here are 5 paragraphs of nonsense stated as if it’s written in stone. No one dare challenge me unless they tell me 6 times that I’m wrong - then I’ll actually go look it up and see if what I *felt* must be true actually is”

[leroy jenkins]

leroy had a good post yesterday - about compromise. But I did not recognize anything about compromise by gun advocates --
I can go 'to the middle' but there is no-compromise while the car salesman awaits his Class3 assault rifle.

This is from pages and pages back, but I opened the tab to reply and procrastinated, but think its worth pointing out, you thin compromise is reasonable and necessary but won't do it because you emotionally dislike the idea of law abiding gun owners.

Its not even compromise really, its just cooperation we need. Each side can still support their favorite more radical ideas and there can continue to be stalemate about those things, but in the meantime, aren't there any things we can do that can actually be agreed on by most people and not rabidly opposed by hardly anyone?

At the very least that is something that if habituated, will create a more stable robust nation.


Personally, while you might think the whole tyranny thing is pretty overblown, many people in this country do not, so imagining solutions that don't involve outright bans on the most popular type of guns in the country, mag cap bans, registries or de facto registries is needed if we want to actually get anywhere.


I strongly think this is an american problem and even if the guns went away we would see Molotov cocktail attacks on classrooms at a rate which other developed nations do not experience.

The first most basic step is actually enforce the laws we have regarding reg flags, not just pass increasingly totalitarian laws that wont get enforced until they are way too strict anyways.

I also think the cops not going inside for an hour is criminal. I think something we hopefully we can all agree about is there needs to be some reform of law enforcement. Thinking of things that can bridge the divide between left and right, although law enforcement are a bit of a sacred cow for the right, it doesn't take a genius to see they are more willing to protect the interests of the rich than any of us peasants and I would imagine most of the right would be willing to admit this if it meant gun rights were less in danger.

We need to find the things we can all agree about that the cops and politicians disagree with us about. Those are the things that will lead to strengthening our democracy by pursuing them, not weakening and dividing it.

[leroy jenkins]

Is it insulting for you to be told you spout a lot of bullshit with certainty and confidence?

The few times you’ve hinted at brief moments of self awareness have been fleeting and result in zero changes to your approach - you go right back to “Dear Diary - here are 5 paragraphs of nonsense stated as if it’s written in stone. No one dare challenge me unless they tell me 6 times that I’m wrong - then I’ll actually go look it up and see if what I *felt* must be true actually is”

Oh I love it when people challenge what i say, but hyperbole ridicule and insults aren't really challenging anything. More like what people do when they avoid challenging anything you say.

[XXX-er]

leroy you act like an idiot and then you wonder why people think you are an idiot

if you you havent figured this out

maybe you are an idiot

and I mean that in the nicest way

[skiJ]

Jfc. The fucking doors. Yup.

School doors open and close all damn day. Ever hear of recess? Or outdoor classes? So when the door opens and a fucktard with ak47's walks up and shoots everything in sight and continues in that open door that is the issue?
Or he just walks up and blows thru the glass windows or doors?

Fuck you and anyone placing blame on a fucking door being open. The door in Buffalo was wide open. Didn't hear about that being an issue.

Maybe, just maybe, it's the fucking semi-auto high capacity guns.

Maybe you should speak to an educator. While doing so ask for some English 101 tips also.

Doors...

Also, those mentioning parents and raising children properly. That sounds wonderful and all, but unfortunately it's not reality for so many children these days. The opioid epidemic has left thousands of kids parentless either from death or prison. It's gut wrenching.

If you don't know or speak with educators you don't really know what is going on in the school systems. And on that note many schools are desperate for teachers, so let's make it like a prison because that's exactly why teachers want to teach. Give them guns too. Awesome!

Fuck you and your guns America. This happens nowhere else. That's the bottom line.

Yes, eliminate guns. Correct.

Teachers and educators are both within our public schools and they're close cousins. What are you talking about exactly?

And you work with teachers and parents eh? Do you work with educators also? What do you do that makes you so enlightened with regard to schools?

And when the recess door goes wide open and Johnny asshole walks up with his AK, exactly what happens next? Educate me on that scenario. Or, just like Sandy Hook the doors were locked (and school doors have been locked for years) he shoot thru them, then what happens?

Yes, promote school safety which they've been doing for years and yes it can always be improved upon.

dear jack-

There are too many unknown variables in your johnnyAK scenario for me to comment meaningfully, Except to say if elementary students are sent outside with johnnyAK on the property, a mistake has been made and the best one can hope for is to limit the damage.

in my region, people who identify themselves as "educators" do not work in the classroom ( they work in Administration ) ;
at the same time, my friend in administration who is responsible for department curriculum refers to herself as a teacher.

( I note you asked to be Educate-d ;
I doubt I am a person to do that for you. )

Thank you for acknowledging that I support gun regulation ( including eliminating citizens access to assault firearms ) ;
Thank you for acknowledging school Safety can be improved.


my school has eight unlocked outside doors ;
I have been there recently, and the next time I am home, I will go specifically to see if that has changed...
it has not been ten years - thank you, C.

Fundamentally, schools are not prisons
( unless they are prisons, being called schools
( see Lincoln Hills school (for boys)) ;


gun regulation alone will not solve this in a timely manner -
I do not expect there to be significant improvement in gun regulation in the next ten years...
But schools can be safer - in September.

I hate the term hardening - Because I believe it promotes a false sense of security -
propping outside doors Open and leaving barrier doors unlocked ...
does not enhance Safety.

police (swat) that will not engage -
I believe they are in the wrong line of Work.

school Safety --

wishing you a good Memorial Day. tj

[Bobby Stainless]

Gun regulation alone will not solve this in a timely manner -
I do not expect there to be significant improvement in gun regulation in the next ten years...
But schools can be safer - in September.

I would think this is fairly obvious.

It's been almost 10 years since Sandy Hook and nothing meaningful has happened.

[skiJ]

The artist dated that in ‘17

. . .

[nickwm21]

Attachment 417620

Attachment 417619

It’s often pointed out that mass shootings and assault rifles are a small fraction of the issue; as if to discount the issue entirely… but the other “categories” of gun violence bring more reason for gun control reform IMO.

* The fact that Unintentional Shootings =\< Self Defense shootings is evidence enough that stricter gun control is needed.

** The suicide numbers are where I believe we could see the biggest change if we enacted gun control measures focused on longer wait periods and mental health checks… there have been studies that show that when a person fails a suicide attempt, they are much much less likely to attempt again. Guns have a high success rate for that first attempt…



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[XXX-er]

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/29/11020...to-UyWT5Rrk1Dk

and the carnage continues ^^