If only there was something we could do...

[jackstraw]

. . .

if a 'locked door' "will absolutely not stop anyone from getting in. " it is not a "deterrent" and does not sound like a locked door to me -

so let's prop the doors open, claim the Only issue is guns, drop a bunch of f* bombs and try to sound tough.

or

we could look for solutions to the problem(s) --


you'll get no argument from me that guns are part of the problem - but guns by themselves are not carrying out these massacres - this is a people problem ;

when a thread about school Safety becomes thirty pages of ' all things guns ' , we have further evidence this is a people problem.

when the ownership of assault weapons ( definition - those designed and intended for killing people. there are other definitions - we can get lost in the minutiae of arguing the definition, but let's start there > guns designed to, and intended to, kill people. )
... when the ownership of assault weapons is defended as a "valuable" investment, I would offer, one needs a better investment strategy.


so., school Safety -
I hate the term 'hardening' schools - it certainly fits the lexicon of the era, but let's try to make schools safer again.
up-thread, the idea of school Safety was dismissed as "insane." Thank you, dunfree - "stupid is, as stupid does. " (Gump)
it IS the teachers who are in the best position - and have the most to gain by taking protective measures. lock the door - Especially when the classroom is equipped with a Safety door.

these are different times, and we need to recognize society has changed -

Safety First. And always. Safety always --


I would be happy if citizens surrendered assault weapons. it ain't going to happen willingly; and it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

we can make schools safer - by September. but it requires buy-in., and it requires ,,, buy-in. parents, teachers, society, administrators, the public. students.
and one of the problems I see is schools are a current focal point for arguments about covid policy. it is sickening.
we aren't even going to be able to agree on basic, fundamental steps to enhance Safety.


lock the door. lock the door. a barrier door, Not a cylinder lock --
authorized entry Only. does one have an appointment to be there (?) authorized entry Only. lock the door

let's start there. tj


alternatively,
This is the cost of living in the gun culture -


now I see why americans live elsewhere -

I doubt I am going to do that. but If I was forty ( or twenty-five ), that might merit serious consideration.


. . . back to your Gun 'discussion' ...

Maybe you should speak to an educator. While doing so ask for some English 101 tips also.

Doors...

Also, those mentioning parents and raising children properly. That sounds wonderful and all, but unfortunately it's not reality for so many children these days. The opioid epidemic has left thousands of kids parentless either from death or prison. It's gut wrenching.

If you don't know or speak with educators you don't really know what is going on in the school systems. And on that note many schools are desperate for teachers, so let's make it like a prison because that's exactly why teachers want to teach. Give them guns too. Awesome!

Fuck you and your guns America. This happens nowhere else. That's the bottom line.

[ötzi]

Another offshoot of Reganomics.... shutting down the federally funded system of mental health hospitals. Now the answer is to put the crazy people in their parent's basements and HOPE they take their meds..

Reagan made the problem much worse but it started in the '60s with the widespread introduction of psychotropic drugs like Thorazine. State Legislatures nationwide said, shit, that means we can just give them drugs and shut down these damn expensive hospitals, let's do it! And away we went.

My Dad said, "I used to be a psychiatrist but now I'm just a psychpharmacologist."

[frorider]

GOP congressman Rick Jacobs now supports more gun control https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news...t-is-unlimited. As so often seems to be the case with conservatives, their view on drug decriminalization or legal abortion access or XXYY only evolves when an event close to them ‘changes their mind’, as if they lack the empathetic skills to engage with, say, the geographically distant Parkland or Columbine tragedies.

One thing I may have missed in this thread regards the Mental Health strategy in actual practice. We all know that there are people whose mental health shifts after a nasty divorce or job loss or other trauma, so from a gun safety perspective the only logical mental health strategy would be one in which someone objectively determined ‘at risk’ would not only not be able to buy the class of weapons in scope, but would have to, at least temporarily, turn in their previously purchased firearms. But that latter action effectively requires a robust, digital, national registration database. Without it, the entire ‘mental health’ solution falls apart.

[MultiVerse]

Not always, but often mental health crises are short term and fade with time. That's why waiting periods reduce total suicides because suicidal ideation, as does homicidal ideation, goes away some of the time.

[SumJongGuy]

And grocery stores, and Walmarts, and shopping malls, and churches, and synagogues, and mosques, and outdoor concert venues, etc....

Not just schools that would need to be fortified like prisons.. Crickets from the gun carrying crowd. We either accept that every week some "good guy" will lose his/her shit in one of these public venues somewhere if we keep allowing people to access these venues with guns/continue business as usual. Schools are actually the most secure of all the above already.

I'm expecting some half hearted "it's the price of freedumbs" response to the reality above. Because me having my gun matters more than doing more to protect all the public places of business and fun. So tough shit and thoughts and prayers for everyone who gets killed when some suddenly former good guy/gal mows people down without warning..

[Bobby Stainless]

I think all the school drills, all the security, all the media coverage, combined with easy access to weapons have made school shootings a cultural meme like serial killers were in the past. Serial killers used to imitate other serial killers. Now gunmen are imitating other gunmen.

Serial killers can't get away with killing sprees that span months or years anymore. The Night Stalker for example, would be caught fairly quickly these days. I think mass shooters are an evolution of serial killers and that desire to cause fear(control). You just can't drag it out like you could in the 70s and 80s, due to forensic technology.

[Bobby Stainless]

when some suddenly former good guy/gal mows people down without warning..

Is that what is happening? Historically responsible gun owners are losing their marbles and mowing people down?

[::: :::]

https://katu.com/news/local/10-shoot...and-police-say

PORTLAND, Ore. —
Portland police responded to 10 shootings in the city within a 24-hour period, resulting in 10 people being hit by gunfire.

There was one homicide, as well as two unintended victims hit by gunfire, police said.

Portland police released the following details about the shootings:

On Friday just before 3 a.m., officers responded to Southeast 128th Avenue and Southeast Sherman Street.

A confrontation between a group of people resulted in shots fired. Two of the people involved in the altercation suffered gunshot wounds. One person suffered critical, life-threatening injuries. Police said another person had a serious, but a non-life-threatening injury.

Just before 3:30 a.m. Friday morning, officers were called to a home in the 700 block of Northeast 92nd Avenue.

Police said the shooting happened when someone confronted people breaking into a car. Several shots were fired at the neighbor, police said. No injuries were reported. Police said the suspects left the area before officers arrived.

Police were then called to a parking lot on Northeast 21st Avenue just before 6 a.m. Friday morning. According to police, an employee retrieving a scrap metal dumpster found someone inside the dumpster.

When the person was asked to leave so the employee could remove the dumpster, police said “a disturbance ensued during which a shot was fired.” Police said the suspect left and officers were unable to find them.

Just after 6 a.m., police responded to a homicide in the 7100 Block of North Columbia Boulevard.

Then on Friday afternoon just before 12:30 p.m., police were called to Northeast 104th and Wygant Street. Police said a disturbance led to a report of a shot fired. No victims or suspects were found, police said.

Officers were then called to North Midway Avenue and North Richards street at around 5:45 p.m. A verbal fight resulted in shots fired, police said.

A woman who was getting out of a tent in the encampment was struck by a stray round as she was directly in line with an individual shooting at the intended victims, police said.

Another person involved in the altercation struck as well, police said. The unintended victim suffered a serious, but non-life-threatening gunshot wound police said. Another person was treated and released from the hospital.

Just after 6 p.m. Friday, officers were called to the 3700 block of Southeast 71st Avenue after reports of shots fired.

Officers recovered evidence at the scene, police said. A victim later walked into a hospital and has since been released.

Then just before 11 p.m., officers responded to Southeast Holgate Boulevard and Southeast 113th Avenue. The victim told police they were the victim of a gunpoint robbery and was shot when they struggled with the suspect over the gun.

Police said officers were unable to locate the crime scene and so far investigators have no corroboration.

Police officers were then called to a home near the 7000 block of Northeast 11th Avenue. The shooting appeared to be an exchange of gunfire on the street or sidewalk, police said. Someone in the home was asleep in bed when a round penetrated the home and struck her.

Lastly just after 1 a.m. Saturday morning, police were called to the 4800 block of Southeast Hawthorne Street after reports of a shooting. Police said two people were hurt and nearby homes were damaged. Police said one victim had serious non-life-threatening injuries and one was critically hurt.

A message from Portland Police:
Critical incidents such as these take a significant number of police resources to respond and investigate, and the Portland Police Bureau is aware that many lower priority calls do not get a timely response. We are grateful for the patience from the community as we work through the calls.

If anyone has information about any of these incidents, and has not already spoken to police, they are asked to e-mail crimetips@portlandoregon.gov and include the applicable case number.

Crime Stoppers of Oregon offers cash rewards of up to $2,500 cash for information, reported to Crime Stoppers, that leads to an arrest in any unsolved felony crime and tipsters can remain anonymous.

[mcphee]

Serial killers can't get away with killing sprees that span months or years anymore. The Night Stalker for example, would be caught fairly quickly these days. I think mass shooters are an evolution of serial killers and that desire to cause fear(control). You just can't drag it out like you could in the 70s and 80s, due to forensic technology.

Delusional. No grasp on reality. Your guns should be taken away.

[::: :::]

[Bobby Stainless]

Delusional. No grasp on reality. Your guns should be taken away.

Have you actually done anything other than virtue signal on TGR? Real question.

I'm sure all this does wonders for your own ego and make believe friends here at TGR. Online popularity and all that important stuff.

It does little for your cause.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Does this mean it’s about the guns?


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[SumJongGuy]

Is that what is happening? Historically responsible gun owners are losing their marbles and mowing people down?

Clearly you aren't paying attention to road rage incidents. Vegas shooter? George Zimmerman? Assholes in movie theaters? That's exactly what I'm saying.

We're gonna see a lot more of that type of shit as the folks in their 30s-50s today arming themselves since they don't like they way society is evolving get older and hit their 60s-80s. Fully armed masses with age related dementia is gonna be a bitch! And folks thought 80 year old people still owning cars is a problem..

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Have you actually done anything other than virtue signal on TGR? Real question.

I'm sure all this does wonders for your own ego and make believe friends here at TGR.

It does little for your cause.

I don’t think, I could be entirely off base, that the ideation and psychology of the serial killer and a mass shooter are the same.


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[Bunion 2020]

Is that what is happening? Historically responsible gun owners are losing their marbles and mowing people down?

Numerically speaking? Of course not, that's why they wear the label responsible.

School mass shootings are a different animal than mass shootings like the recent incident in Buffalo. The same as gun violence in places like Detroit/Chicago/LA.

All somewhat different other than the common theme. Easy access to firearms, legally and illegally.

[happytimefunbox]

What about the pigs feelings?

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[mcphee]

Have you actually done anything other than virtue signal on TGR? Real question.

I'm sure all this does wonders for your own ego and make believe friends here at TGR. Online popularity and all that important stuff.

It does little for your cause.

What’s your definition of “done anything”? Because I’m not going to list out the things I do to make sure my voice is heard on issues I care about for you to do what you do and move goal posts, lol at how little effect it has, and WhAtAbOuT all over again again and again and again.

ETA: I don’t fuel my ego the way you do. I don’t worship wealth the way you do. We are 180* apart as human beings. Do not equate any of my motives in my pursuit of happiness with yours.

[MultiVerse]

Serial killers can't get away with killing sprees that span months or years anymore. The Night Stalker for example, would be caught fairly quickly these days. I think mass shooters are an evolution of serial killers and that desire to cause fear(control). You just can't drag it out like you could in the 70s and 80s, due to forensic technology.

Yeah, mimetic loops can be coaxed along or diminished by external forces, and don't just arise out of thin air.

Whether it's serial killers, celebrity assassinations, mass workplace shootings, or school shootings people often describe it as a “lone-wolf” or a “random act” but as we see in text messages today or writing in the past there's almost always some form of resentment and competition connecting killers.

[Buster Highmen]

It's the rage, the disrespect, the complete lack of compassion for what's left of our culture as it shatters in the grindstones of tribalist media.

[Bobby Stainless]

What’s your definition of “done anything”? Because I’m not going to list out the things I do to make sure my voice is heard on issues I care about for you to do what you do and move goal posts, lol at how little effect it has, and WhAtAbOuT all over again again and again and again.

ETA: I don’t fuel my ego the way you do. I don’t worship wealth the way you do. We are 180* apart as human beings. Do not equate any of my motives in my pursuit of happiness with yours.

You sure do feel the need to engage with me over and over.

[mcphee]

I like talking shit to people who deserve scorn

[skiJ]

Maybe you should speak to an educator. While doing so ask for some English 101 tips also.

Doors...

Also, those mentioning parents and raising children properly. That sounds wonderful and all, but unfortunately it's not reality for so many children these days. The opioid epidemic has left thousands of kids parentless either from death or prison. It's gut wrenching.

If you don't know or speak with educators you don't really know what is going on in the school systems. And on that note many schools are desperate for teachers, so let's make it like a prison because that's exactly why teachers want to teach. Give them guns too. Awesome!

Fuck you and your guns America. This happens nowhere else. That's the bottom line.

ha ha ha ha Ha --

sure, jack-
This is a Single Issue problem that will be solved as soon as You eliminate guns.

I work with 'teachers' ( the good ones are teachers. and you do you -- )
edit. jack-, you may want to review the difference between "teachers" and "educators". . .

I also work with parents --

[ insert clown emoji here ]

parenting and opioids- Thank you for that.

schools get to evolve, too, jack-
Otherwise, you have "educators" propping-open lockable, barrier doors, whose spouses blame guns when a mentally-ill boy invades a school and a classroom.

Please come back when You have eliminated guns from your school district

( and you want to argue about whether a locked, barrier "door" can make a difference, or insist that everyone agree with your opinion of "Doors... )

you 're a beauty, jack-

' go jump in the lake '


promote school Safety - Thank you. tj

postscript -

regarding the prison analogy - schools are not prisons. even if you moved the school to a building that had been a jail or prison, it would still be a school ;

teachers want a Safe working-and-teaching environment ;
teachers want childhood students to be in a Safe environment...

the most frequent reason I hear for young teachers leaving Teaching is not Safety or bad students,
it Unreasonable parents that have unreasonable, irrational demands.

Thank you, jack-

[Cisco Kid]

Delusional. No grasp on reality. Your guns should be taken away.

When he said "I think" he said it all.

[Bobby Stainless]

I like talking shit to people who deserve scorn

Not sure it accomplishes much. Oh well.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What about the pigs feelings?

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Pussy is great, I’ll refer to the Uvalde SWAT
as limp dicks


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