If only there was something we could do...

[huckbucket]

Start around 4:30. 3% ... only 3%

[basinbeater]

Why the fuck are you guys arguing about the thickness of bulletproof vests?
The problem is guns. Millions and millions of easy access guns designed to kill people. And they are well engineered to accomplish this.
Everybody is a good guy with a gun, until they aren't.
I want 2a gun nuts to see a billboard of slaughtered kids everyday on the way to work. Sickening? You bet. That's the fucking point.

[Diamond Joe]

So what is the price? They get paid more than armed forces folks and frequently bilk the public with "overtime" their last few years to get better pensions than everyone else.

Yeah, uh.. thats not actually a thing bro. Overtime does not count towards police pension calculations.

[Ted Striker]

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

[XXX-er]

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

Together with the NDP I don't see why they can't push this thru, don't forget its the British parliamentary system eh

[garyfromterrace]

stop over 40 pages ago I wrote that the leading cause of death of children is buy gun fire

there is no challenging this fact. either people shouldn't have guns or they don't know how to have them

the end result is the same - strict gun laws

you just don't want to hear it because you hide behind the second amendment

for once in your fucking life say that the death of our children are a price your are willing to pay for your fear for your property and an over reach of government

just say it - it's ok that the main cause of death of children is guns

This x400million.

[Bobby Stainless]

the system is fuct and you're arguing semantics

I was just wondering how he knew 5.56 would punch through a "standard police vest" without knowing the rating level. I thought they wore plate carriers.

What's fuct is you thinking some sort of answer or resolution is going to come from TGR. Not going to happen.

If you would like your money back, I can see if we can get you a refund?

Anybody got links saying regular cops do wear full plated armor? I don't think they do..

What's full plated armor?

semantics requires Bobby to know what he’s talking about. He’s a wumao shitting in the thread who thinks he bought knowledge with his blued buttplugs

[Bobby Stainless]

This idea that the Police are out gunned is a cop out. Early 80s you could buy machine guns and cut people in half. It happened quite a bit in South Florida. Banned in 1986.

25 years ago, during the AWB, two guys took on a whole Police force in North Hollywood. They did this with homemade body armor and illegal assault rifles. Ever since then, cops have had armor and rifles.

None of this is new.

It's fairly obvious that the local Police force was not very concerned with the students of that school. That was the poor school and it had mostly brown kids in it.

Canada is banning handguns and adding limits to rifles. Mandatory surrender for cash. (if they have the votes)

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/30/11020...-sales-imports

Then why are we trying to ban rifles?

[schuss]

Yeah, uh.. thats not actually a thing bro. Overtime does not count towards police pension calculations.

Depends on the state and town. I know for plenty of towns here, it's average of the last 3 years of service, so they work the system to do lots of traffic gigs.
As far as I've seen they're pretty well compensated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mas...outputType=amp
https://patch.com/connecticut/stamfo...city-employees

[Bobby Stainless]

Your assumptions make for bad math.

They got rid of less than a 1/4 of a percent of the guns we have. That could be a rounding error for our situation.

US gun manufacturers made 7 million guns in 2019 alone. That was actually a lower amount than previous years.

Im not sure exact math matters much because the two situations are extraordinarily different.

[MTT]

Has anyone else been hearing that the sicko was actually taken out by a parent not on duty not part of the police response? It’s ringing true to me. A dad who happens to work for border patrol. Went into the school. Got his kids to safety. Then went back in. And took the broken human out.

If true that’s fuckin wild

Anyone else hearing the same?

Also curious if the demon was on or had been on antidepressants. Every other one was

Other than that. I don’t understand how we have people amongst us who could do something like this. I just don’t understand.

I have my solution. These are strange days

[Bobby Stainless]

That was a border patrol agent that was getting a haircut. He took his barbers shot gun and went to the school. His wife and daughter were in the school and he got them out and then proceeded to evacuate others.

I believe the agent that killed the shooter was part of a different border patrol outfit. He apparently heard about it over his radio at lunch and drove to the school. Grabbed a ballistics shield and entered the school with some other LEO. A bullet grazed the top of his head and he needed staples.
(I'd bet 5 dollars he's former military)

Retired veterans with combat experience to patrol schools? This is fucking idiotic. What makes you think they’d be good patrolling a school?

This one aged well.

[SumJongGuy]

Why the fuck are you guys arguing about the thickness of bulletproof vests?
.

It matters whether or not police are confident that their standard vests will protect them from those kinds of threats. I've never fired an AR but I have shot an AK clone at junked cars, older 60s and 70s cars. It's amazing how much metal they go through. Seems to me that stuff that police aren't able to protect themselves from should definitely not be so readily available to the general public. What I've xeen confirmed is that the cop vests do well against most handgun threats, 9mm, 40 cal etc.. Havent seen anything confirming they do well against those armor piercing high velocity rounds.

This stuff
https://www.firequest.com/ARM-100

I'll shut up when someone confirms vests work against those.

[huckbucket]

I'd bet 5 dollars he's former military.
This one aged well.

It's pretty obvious these two things give you wood. You should probably get that checked out.

[Bobby Stainless]

It's pretty obvious these two things give you wood. You should probably get that checked out.

Just proving a point. Turns out a SRO and two cops did not engage the shooter. Turns out police didn't do... anything really.

Zachary Evans
Sat, May 28, 2022,
The Border Patrol agents who killed the school shooter in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday entered the school on their own accord after local law enforcement requested that they hold back, two senior federal law enforcement sources told NBC News on Friday.
The agents from BORTAC, Border Patrol’s tactical unit, arrived at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde from a location about 40 miles away, according to the New York Times. Agents from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) arrived around the same time, the federal sources told NBC.
Local law enforcement asked the two teams to wait, and then tasked HSI agents with pulling schoolchildren out of classroom windows. BORTAC agents waited about 30 minutes and then decided to ignore local law enforcement’s request to remain outside, entering the school and neutralizing the gunman.

One of the BORTAC agents sustained a graze wound to the head before killing the shooter.

[Bobby Stainless]

It matters whether or not police are confident that their standard vests will protect them from those kinds of threats. I've never fired an AR but I have shot an AK clone at junked cars, older 60s and 70s cars. It's amazing how much metal they go through. Seems to me that stuff that police aren't able to protect themselves from should definitely not be so readily available to the general public. What I've xeen confirmed is that the cop vests do well against most handgun threats, 9mm, 40 cal etc.. Havent seen anything confirming they do well against those armor piercing high velocity rounds.

This stuff
https://www.firequest.com/ARM-100

I'll shut up when someone confirms vests work against those.

Take a look at the plate carrier the guy is wearing in the picture. He almost had his head blown off because he wasn't wearing a helmet. The other agent who had to borrow a gun from a civilian, had zero armor.

Im not sure why you are trying to offer this up as an excuse for the local Police.

[DBdude]

Depends on the state and town. I know for plenty of towns here, it's average of the last 3 years of service, so they work the system to do lots of traffic gigs.
As far as I've seen they're pretty well compensated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mas...outputType=amp
https://patch.com/connecticut/stamfo...city-employees

yes, this is true for NY

[basinbeater]

No amount of policing will stop this as long as access to guns is as easy as it is.
The type of armor they have is irrelevant. Maybe thicker armor makes it so there are 10 dead instead of 20 dead. That's still not solving the problem. Everybody knows guns are the problem, and that is why people immediately move to tighten gun control, and on the other side of the coin exactly why gun nuts immediately begin howling about 2a and demanding more guns to counter the guns that are out there. One argument makes sense, the other does not and actually makes things worse.

[Dexter Rutecki]

No amount of policing will stop this as long as access to guns is as easy as it is.
The type of armor they have is irrelevant. Maybe thicker armor makes it so there are 10 dead instead of 20 dead. That's still not solving the problem. Everybody knows guns are the problem, and that is why people immediately move to tighten gun control, and on the other side of the coin exactly why gun nuts immediately begin howling about 2a and demanding more guns to counter the guns that are out there. One argument makes sense, the other does not and actually makes things worse.

Yup, and yet again all the people with their doors locked/mental health/good guy with a gun nonsense need to fuck right off with that bullshit. No capacity for shame with those people, unfortunately.

[MultiVerse]

Turns out a SRO and two cops did not engage the shooter. Turns out police didn't do... anything really.

This has been covered so many times in this thread. Why do people keep getting it wrong? Numerous eyewitnesses say police engaged the shooter initially. Two minutes after Ramos entered the school, three police officers followed him through the same door and were quickly joined by four more. Authorities said Ramos exchanged fire from the classroom with the officers in the hallway and two of them suffered "grazing wounds." The shooter fired over a 100 rounds during this time.

The first police on the scene were outgunned by Ramos' powerful, high-end rifle, according to a man who watched from a nearby home.


And from the last time this came up: "These BORTAC guys however are not just regular Border Patrol agents. They're highly trained, highly capable. They are headquartered and trained at Fort Bliss U.S. Army base in El Paso, Texas. One of their main missions is to respond to terrorist threats. They conduct narcotics operations overseas. They supported the military mission in Afghanistan. Stateside, they routinely breach buildings during drugs raids, etc. "

[Dexter Rutecki]

Clearly we just need highly trained anti-terrorist squads that would otherwise deploy overseas at all our schools. USA. WT actual F.

[riser4]

Clearly we just need highly trained anti-terrorist squads that would otherwise deploy overseas at all our schools. USA. WT actual F.

Inverse. We need to address the domestic terrorism issue. It overlaps with the AR-15 LARP issue.

[MultiVerse]

Armed Texans standing around does suggest a lot of current American gun culture is LARPing and cosplay. Uvalde Texas is a small town of 16K people. A larger city with a more experienced more capable tactical team probably would have shortened the timeline. The doesn't change the fact most of the killing happens in the first few seconds and minutes of a shooting.

The 2019 Dayton, Ohio shooter shot and killed nine people, including his brother, and wounded 17 others near the entrance of the Ned Peppers Bar in the Oregon District of Dayton, Ohio. The shooter was fatally shot by responding police officers 32 seconds after the first shots were fired. A total of 27 people were taken to area hospitals.

[DBdude]

that's why kids were getting shot over thirty minutes into it

second - has it ever occurred to you that maybe we should get the shooter neutralized immediately to provide care for the wounded

are you really this stupid?

[ex-powderbroker]

Uvalde Texas is a small town of 16K people. A larger city with a more experienced more capable tactical team probably would have shortened the timeline.

Speculation, there are a lot of towns out there with 15-50k that do not have tactical teams AFAICT and have no border security teams. Buffalo shooter was killed by regular police, for instance.

The doesn't change the fact most of the killing happens in the first few seconds and minutes of shooting.

This is the important part. No good guy with a gun would change the fact that many were already dead. Like Buffalo. Like Pulse. Or Sandy Hook. Or Tree of Life. Or the Emanuel Church. Or Virginia Tech, Vegas, even Fort Hood, etc