View Poll Results: What should we do?

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  • Nothing, Cat is out of the bag and this is the cost of our "freedom"

    16 10.26%
  • Prison Time for gun owners who lose or have their gun stolen

    30 19.23%
  • Background checks and a waiting period for 100% of transactions

    119 76.28%
  • No semiautomatic anythings...

    60 38.46%
  • Tax gun sales with additional fee to go to mental health

    70 44.87%
  • Register ALL firearms and require insurance (car analogy)

    101 64.74%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I'm not sure what to think about the fact that many of the people who thought wearing masks in schools was damaging to the kids, but filling schools with ex-combat soldiers carrying ARs is a great solution to this problem.
    Seems pretty consistent to me - they're ok with kids dying, whether it be from infection or bullet.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Most cops have rifles in their patrol cars and wear body armor every single shift all shift long, this has been the trend since the mid 1990s. This perp had only soft armor (stops some pistol rounds maybe) only covering some of his torso.

    After Columbine, OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO, where the cops waited around forever while the killers killed, the modus operandi for police active shooter response switched to: ATTACK FULL BREACH IMMEDIATELY by as few as two initial responding officers.

    Having 3 cops flee, then a whole department twiddling their thumbs for 40 minutes is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement. That the perp had to be taken down by a CBP tactical team that just happened to be nearby and just happened to be listening to the radio (and then couldn't breach a simple door) is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement.

    NOBODY gives two fucks about officer safety in these situations except for fucking cowards.
    Agree with this. This is a good direction to focus in as it might be something that would galvanize the right into agreeing with the left about something, if police reform was not reduced to the idiotic 'defund the police' notion, and was something that could make them more effective in doing thier jobs which are supposed to be selfless not predatory.

    Things the majority of citizens can agree on are what should be focused on, and when we find that they are things we all agree with, that the politicians cops and billionaires disagree with, well then we've got the makings of a functional democracy if we can keep moving forward with that productive unity.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  3. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    my takeaway isn't that the police are the problem
    The general public cannot be trusted with firearms has been my takeaway since the early 90s. Yet the gun lobby and lawmakers have made it easier and easier to obtain firearms.

  4. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    You believe that most mass shooters were mentally ill in a treatable preventable way?

    I do not.
    care given can be effective
    but it needs to start happening before we can say it doesn't work

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Reposting my mental health post
    thanks




    the other bit that seemingly gets shoved into the "mental health" box is the indoctrination online in extremism:
    "patriotism" that is at odds with american law/precedent
    militias
    tacticool/fetishizing black guns
    white nationalist grievance
    etc
    all at odds with the social contract listed upthread


    I think counseling & assisting people who feel fringe to interact with society in positive ways is part of "mental health." It isn't just conditions where medication is prescribed.

  5. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    We have more than one example of school shooters specifically targeting those who mercilessly bullied them, or targeted the school at which they were bullied blaming the system, not that such murder is justified.

    This 18 year old guy did not attend school for the last year, guy got kicked out of his house, lived with his grandparents, shot grandma over a phone bill, then went to a random nearby elementary school and randomly murdered an entire classroom of 4th graders and their teacher.

    I guarantee you he was an amoral psychopath. You CANNOT fix that with better mental healthcare. I made a detailed post about this a few pages back and got zero response.

    Don't medicalize all criminality.

    That being said, mental healthcare is very important.

    I don't watch the news as I don't think its healthy to experience these things that intimately that often, but i can see why people are responding with such emotion, this definitely ups the bar for crazy chaotic senseless randomness. Thats fucking horrible.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  6. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    my takeaway isn't that the police are the problem
    Seems like it. So making them the only ones that get to be armed seems stupid.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  7. #657
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    The far right wingers in my office are reporting that the shooter was a transsexual man who had begun to transition to a woman. So apparently that's how the right is going to explain this away.

  8. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The far right wingers in my office are reporting that the shooter was a transsexual man who had begun to transition to a woman. So apparently that's how the right is going to explain this away.
    they started doing that the same day as the shooting, not sure if it even got laundered through anything respectable, just straight from 8Chan to Gosar et al

  9. #659
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    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    We've had people on this forum donate to the NRA, and proudly show their receipts, days after a mass shooting saying they did so because of comments in the thread even though nobody at the time called for 'grabbing' anyone's guns.
    Shitheads abound. Fuck those mouthbreathing redneck fucks.
    [quote][//quote]

  11. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    they started doing that the same day as the shooting, not sure if it even got laundered through anything respectable, just straight from 8Chan to Gosar et al
    yup, transexual illegal alien. HE KNEW IT ALREADY!
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  12. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership? The (LGBTQ) Pink Pistols?
    Those are "gun businesses"? Sounds more like a social club. I'd put Proud Boys in a similar category but obviously more dangerous company.. None of those are a "gun business" though..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  13. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    You're not going to be able to overturn the 2nd. If you want gun law reform, you're going to have to start thinking about what gun control you can support, that might actually help things, that you can also get the majority of gun owners to support as well.

    So registries and de facto registries are off the table you don't get the support for that.

    You're going to have to abandon your favorite most emotionally gratifying ideas and embrace finding common ground with those you disagree with. This isn't a moral commandment its just a practical reality.

    Demonizing gun owners and dismissing their values as insanity or selfishness are not going to get us anywhere. Making them feel scared of bans is just going to make them buy more guns and ammo. Keep butting your heads against a brick wall if you want, it won't lead to any sollutions but it at least creates a target to vent blame and anger on.
    No, we could do everything we need to do that every other country has done. Just saying it can't be done is meaningless. We're not as insensible a country as the radical right/gun lobby would have you believe. Get rid of the guns and the problem goes away. It's literally as simple as that. Maybe we would never reach NZ levels of gun safety, but we could get to Canada levels. Certainly.
    [quote][//quote]

  14. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    JFC, someone needs to explain to you the limits of anecdotal evidence. Fuck's sake, you should be embarassed. How is what you posted in any way meaningful? Literally smh.
    [quote][//quote]

  15. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Just saying it can't be done is meaningless.
    It's worse than meaningless. It's an intentional self-fulfilling prophecy.

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    I hope some of you aren't wasting all your time engaging with nitwits.

    Please take some time to write your senators to pass HR8 and demand that further gun control bills be passed.
    We don't elect willfully blind senators here, and I'm not sure what the effect would be of writing to another state's senator...but I'd do it.
    For this and 100 other reasons I'm completely ready to just cut off a good part of the country and let them have their guns, covid hospitalizations, forced births, etc. The start of the NA third world.
    [quote][//quote]

  17. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    We've had people on this forum donate to the NRA, and proudly show their receipts, days after a mass shooting saying they did so because of comments in the thread even though nobody at the time called for 'grabbing' anyone's guns.
    Another shitbird on this forum was proud to announce his first reaction to Newtown was to manufacture a bunch of gun parts that might be made illegal in the aftermath.

    Kids dying is Pavlov's dinner bell for gun cucks.

  18. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    It's worse than meaningless. It's an intentional self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Well, yeah, that's part of the point. They repeat it so often it becomes an accepted truth, even though it's not at all true.
    [quote][//quote]

  19. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    Yeah. Subways in NYC are super safe these days. Just don't get pushed on the tracks or shot.
    Do you understand why this is a stupid response to someone citing a stat that proves your point wrong?
    [quote][//quote]

  20. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    they started doing that the same day as the shooting, not sure if it even got laundered through anything respectable, just straight from 8Chan to Gosar et al
    Exactly. When you have fucksticks open fucking carrying on stage to talk about a mass shooting event, who do you think they actually serve? Because it sure as fuck ain't the victimized families. Gun deaths have more than doubled under Abbott, yet they keep pushing for more and more gun deregulation, then keep getting re-elected. You get the government you vote for, not the one you want. Tons of shitheads making tons of hay from firearms manufacturers and the ammosexuals, and all it costs is people dying that they don't know. Until there are meaningful consequences for those that support wholesale deregulation of firearms and resistance to gun control, nothing changes.

  21. #671
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    Nothing gets done because we only care about the problem in fits and starts.

    The NRA has a small group of dedicated people with a singular goal, who focus all of their efforts on negating gun control.

    The rest of the country has people who get outraged every time something like this happens and then forget about it 3 weeks later.

    Fuck we can’t even agree on what the problem is.
    Is it automatic weapons? All guns? Clip sizes? Lack of regulation?
    All the NRA has to know is “no”

  22. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    He’s being a dick about it, but it’s almost impossible to find a gun business that doesn’t actively support the NRA ime. And if they don’t support the nra it’s whatever weirdo group that’s further fringe
    True. But being me, I don't think all guns should be outright banned. And most manufacturers do support the NRA. What he could have done instead of assuming and being an asshole, would be to ask questions.

    Like, how can you buy guns and ammo and feel okay about that? Well, I rarely buy guns and have always done so with an FFL check and have had enhanced background checks and fingerprinting every five years. I also don't buy the type of weapons traditionally used in people shootings nor those calibers (bolt guns and revolvers with associated calibers). Maybe the manufacturers will see that their hunting segments are still profitable and will go back to focusing on those. And maybe if those are profitable, the NRA could get back to why it was founded-hunter education and firearm safety.

    Well, what about your memberships and PAC support? Jeeze, how about fuck the NRA. But our household does donate annually to everytown.org because while we don't agree with every bullet point of their platform, we feel the majority of their points are fair compromises to making firearm ownership in our communities safer and would prevent some of these tragedies.

    How do you vote? That's a tough one. If I'm on the fence on a candidate and the NRA supports them, they're out. But guns are not the only issue in society and some candidates are working on other things I support some I have to think about those more. Do you ever look at a candidates donor list? Yes. The candidates' backers play a major role in how I vote.

    What's in those phone calls you make and letters you write to legislators? Mostly that I'm a lifelong gun owner and hunter whose a fourth generation hunter of this state and that I support stronger regulations around firearms.

    You know, stuff like that that may lead to deeper conversations that seem to be more effective "than this guy owns guns, he's a hypocrite". But Mazderati just seems to troll me on other topics too. This one got me a little riled as these shootings are such a tragedy and they don't need to happen. There are steps our society could work to that would help. I don't think an all out firearm ban is the answer as it will be tangled in courts forever but some more sensible things might be accomplished and those start with guns owners and non-owners talking. There's always going to be the fringe that won't participate but I'm a low hanging fruit gun guy that is excited to have the chat. Why be a dick about it?

  23. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    We don't elect willfully blind senators here, and I'm not sure what the effect would be of writing to another state's senator...but I'd do it.
    For this and 100 other reasons I'm completely ready to just cut off a good part of the country and let them have their guns, covid hospitalizations, forced births, etc. The start of the NA third world.
    We already have a third world and evidently a turd world in the USA as evinced here despite my faith in the overall American electorate.
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  24. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    Nothing gets done because we only care about the problem in fits and starts.

    The NRA has a small group of dedicated people with a singular goal, who focus all of their efforts on negating gun control.

    The rest of the country has people who get outraged every time something like this happens and then forget about it 3 weeks later.

    Fuck we can’t even agree on what the problem is.
    Is it automatic weapons? All guns? Clip sizes? Lack of regulation?
    All the NRA has to know is “no”
    everytown & giffords & moms demand action are working on it

    they need support & they will grow accordingly
    they just got a late start

  25. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    We already have a third world and evidently a turd world in the USA as evinced here despite my faith in the overall American electorate.
    I mean, I find it increasingly hard to maintain that faith (if for no other reason: 2016).

    But your point about directing some of this concern to elected officials is valid, it's just something all my elected officials are already on board with. If the rest of the country followed the bluer states we'd have strong gun laws and far fewer shootings. Imagine the whole country under NYC gun laws--virtually no one aside from law enforcement allowed to carry, no sales, nothing else. There would be thousands of kids who wouldn't have ended up body bagged. But, you know, that's an impossible fantasy, because...???
    [quote][//quote]

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