View Poll Results: What should we do?

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  • Nothing, Cat is out of the bag and this is the cost of our "freedom"

    9 6.92%
  • Prison Time for gun owners who lose or have their gun stolen

    26 20.00%
  • Background checks and a waiting period for 100% of transactions

    104 80.00%
  • No semiautomatic anythings...

    47 36.15%
  • Tax gun sales with additional fee to go to mental health

    59 45.38%
  • Register ALL firearms and require insurance (car analogy)

    85 65.38%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #3926
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    This^^^ study finds a 17% reduction in gun violence occurs in states with waiting periods. That’s like one in six would-be mass killers deterred by the delay.

    So even if this mentally ill guy lived in say, Hawaii rather than Virginia, there’s still a roughly 83% chance he would have killed his coworkers after waiting two weeks.

    I’m all for waiting periods but we need to be realistic about impact.

    Personally I think completion of a firearms safety course would be more effective, esp if trainers are watching for signs of crazy.
    Required training is a kind of waiting period, as is applying/vetting for a carry permit

  2. #3927
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    I'm just as worried (or more) about the lifelong ammosexual who snaps after everything in that country song happens to them as I am about the never ever gun owner who has that shitwtorm and has one more hoop to jump through to carry out said mayhem as the person who already had a gun does. Misery and tragedy (and mental illness) are not unique to gun owners or non gun owners.. I'd argue that feeling the need to carry in public is more a symptom of that paranoia than not..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #3928
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    feeling the need to carry
    that’s the nut right there

    I’d modify to: “feeling the need (& even duty) to carry in the absence of actual daily danger (ie, politically motivated posturing at doom scenarios that have yet to pass)”

    accelerating public life in populated areas towards the inevitability of the self-fulfilling prophecy



    NYT had a piece on the essential provocation of public carry as protest

  4. #3929
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    Required training is a kind of waiting period, as is applying/vetting for a carry permit
    No disagreement. The issues that need to get resolved:
    - the extent to which vetters can dig into applicants mental health records. I’m guessing that crosses the HIPAA line. Same for requiring a mental health exam as part of vetting.
    - most trainers sell firearms, and tend to be (IME) on the Defenders of 2A side of the ledger. Not sure they are the right folks to be screeners.

  5. #3930
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    No disagreement. The issues that need to get resolved:
    - the extent to which vetters can dig into applicants mental health records. I’m guessing that crosses the HIPAA line. Same for requiring a mental health exam as part of vetting.
    - most trainers sell firearms, and tend to be (IME) on the Defenders of 2A side of the ledger. Not sure they are the right folks to be screeners.
    Right? The screening board should be made up entirely of Quakers, life long pacifists. Convince them and you can possess. That's going to weed out all of the racists, boogaloos, anti gubmint, and stand your ground kooks.

  6. #3931
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    - most trainers sell firearms, and tend to be (IME) on the Defenders of 2A side of the ledger. Not sure they are the right folks to be screeners.
    While every instructor and range master I've ever known is of course pro-2A, they've ALSO all been huge safety nerds who take that side of things as seriously as can be. They would not hesitate to flag someone who appears to be... off.

    I've always felt as safe as can be at shooting events and training sessions where everybody's on the same page safety wise. It's the whack jobs out there who have not ever and will not ever attend any sort of formal training or event that I'm concerned about.

    Thus, even as pro-2A as I am personally, I think mandating formal safety training would be an excellent place to start. That's probably something we can mostly all agree on, right?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  7. #3932
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    While every instructor and range master I've ever known is of course pro-2A, they've ALSO all been huge safety nerds who take that side of things as seriously as can be. They would not hesitate to flag someone who appears to be... off.
    OK for me not not for the...
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #3933
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    While every instructor and range master I've ever known is of course pro-2A, they've ALSO all been huge safety nerds who take that side of things as seriously as can be. They would not hesitate to flag someone who appears to be... off.

    I've always felt as safe as can be at shooting events and training sessions where everybody's on the same page safety wise. It's the whack jobs out there who have not ever and will not ever attend any sort of formal training or event that I'm concerned about.

    Thus, even as pro-2A as I am personally, I think mandating formal safety training would be an excellent place to start. That's probably something we can mostly all agree on, right?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    As a starting point, and part of a more comprehensive solution, yes.

  9. #3934
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    The "training" required for CCL/CCW in most states is a total joke now. But hey, half a day, often mostly online is better than nothing I guess.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #3935
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    If only there was something we could do...

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I've always felt as safe as can be at shooting events and training sessions where everybody's on the same page safety wise. It's the whack jobs out there who have not ever and will not ever attend any sort of formal training or event that I'm concerned about.
    Feeling of safety at a gun event is not exactly a model for any kind of societal example. The feeling of comfort is not because everyone there is expertly trained. The difference is that the attendees aren’t looking for constant or sudden threats while there. It is entirely expected to be safe space (in both the generic & socially charged meanings).

    Imagine the tension at that event if all the trained people were each considered to be threats. It would be gut churning, not comforting.

    By contrast, OUT IN PUBLIC is exactly the place where all the folks at the training event are now on edge, and don’t trust everyone they see.

    Maybe something to think about…


    As the gun agenda continues to sell the fear, they continue to build a society afraid of itself. That society is you and me.

  11. #3936
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    Wtf does training have to do with mass shootings? Better background checks are what is needed and maybe some sort of test that can judge propensity for violence. Doesn’t matter, I doubt anyone is going to address this problem anytime in our lifetimes or ever.


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  12. #3937
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Wtf does training have to do with mass shootings? Better background checks are what is needed and maybe some sort of test that can judge propensity for violence. Doesn’t matter, I doubt anyone is going to address this problem anytime in our lifetimes or ever.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    At the very least, it hopefully encourages those who are looking to intervene when the shit hits the fan to not make matters worse. Two small groups of uncoordinated "good guys with guns" sounds like a great recipe for a shootout by mistake.

    Sent using TGR Forums mobile app

  13. #3938
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    I know this is just a tired old trope, but deck chairs on the Titanic

    Literally every other first world country has proven that access is #1

    Without that, nothing will change

  14. #3939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I know this is just a tired old trope, but deck chairs on the Titanic

    Literally every other first world country has proven that access is #1

    Without that, nothing will change
    That’s it, never going to happen in this fucked up country


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #3940
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    Right? The screening board should be made up entirely of Quakers, life long pacifists. Convince them and you can possess. That's going to weed out all of the racists, boogaloos, anti gubmint, and stand your ground kooks.
    Good idea regarding Quakers. Buddhists would be good too. Supply of both is limited in many parts of the country though.

    However, the supply of mothers of gun violence victims is likely way higher, and is much better dispersed across the country. Convince them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    While every instructor and range master I've ever known is of course pro-2A, they've ALSO all been huge safety nerds who take that side of things as seriously as can be. They would not hesitate to flag someone who appears to be... off.

    I've always felt as safe as can be at shooting events and training sessions where everybody's on the same page safety wise. It's the whack jobs out there who have not ever and will not ever attend any sort of formal training or event that I'm concerned about.

    Thus, even as pro-2A as I am personally, I think mandating formal safety training would be an excellent place to start. That's probably something we can mostly all agree on, right?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Totally agree on formal training. I went through a three day course when I was like 10 to get Hunter Safety Card that allowed me to hunt legally.

    Whenever I hear people talk about gun range safety I think of this guy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Vacca

    Mr Vacca was instructing a 9yo kid with an Uzi. On full auto. Kid lost control of muzzle and strafed Mr Vacca.
    In AZ, an 8yo can shoot full autos
    The uzi didn’t need to be registered because it was purchased before the ‘86 act.
    Mr Vacca’s estate is suing his employer, the gun range.
    So much fail

  16. #3941
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    It's a very deeply core root dilemma of this Country which is not going to change- proposed solutions from the ownership or regulatory side, IMHO, or bs political statements, are useless. It needs to be a mental shift amongst the general populace as a whole, and that takes so many generations.

    I've worked through every rational doable solution in my head for decades, and that is what I've come up with.

    I was granted CWP #2 in Boulder County, CO decades ago with nothing more than an affidavit and an old hunter safety card. I am not a gun nut, but a gun safety nut.

    That came from upbringing and intelligence, nothing else. If a waiting list / cooling off period is proposed, then sure, I'm down with it. That is reasonable and rational.

    Other than that, you have to realize that saying 2a in this legal climate is short of 1a, is never going to happen. Should I give you a mental health eval on your speech?

    It takes a cultural shift, not a legislative one. Rational legislation lags reality by a generation at minimum. Same as effective policing could still be done with a bat, not a taser, a 40mm, and a bolawrap. Cops can't even run anymore.

    At my most honest and jaded I recognize that legal gun owners, which are the overwhelming majority, don't give a flying fuck about gun violence. Mass violence, school shootings, domestic terrorism, etc. NFucksG, I can assure you this populace agrees.

    I don't really. It would be nice to do something about it, or traffic safety, but our Country doesn't want it to be a priority. Sorry about xyz, but shit happens. If you want to fix it, like your war on drugs, or healthcare, or retirement, then make it a national priority as so many other countries have and take very seriously. We can't even take simple basic healthcare seriously, and the small percentage of people that die from gun violence, give me a break. I honestly think Americans lack serious focus on issues that really matter. And guns, while small, are not even marginally included in that calculus.

    You want to stop a shooting at a night club, then have a security system in place. You want to stop a school shooting, then ingrain in the kids that if you feel a weirdo, stop and say something about it. Have resources for those parents too to help them feed and instill education. Those grass roots simple measures will stop a lot of American aggression which stems from squeezing the 99% to the point of really not giving a fuck and making a buck so that they can buy their next big car and loan payment.

    There is no band aid for cultural stupidity. On any side.

    /jadedlocal
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  17. #3942
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    Culturally the gun thing is majorly fucked up in our country. Makes me happy to hear resident conservatives support things like mandatory training. Makes sense to me. Mandatory training will get stricken down so fast under the current supreme court.
    I think a waiting period might survive a supreme court test.
    I do think liability is a good way to put a dent in this stuff. I think you should be able to buy as many guns as you want. But you should have to register them. If you want to not have a particular piece anymore, registered sale, or registered gift, or whatever. But if you lose it, or you sell it to sketchy motherfucker without registering the sale, and the gun is used in a violent crime, your ass should go to jail. Bam. 5 years. Someone gets killed with a gun you bought? Bam, 10 years. It will take a while for the halted flow of legally purchased guns to the black market to make a big dent, but eventually people would realize that leaving a gun in their truck is a huge gamble, and maybe I'll leave it in the safe instead. Price of guns on black market will go up, gun crime will go down.
    Also, fuck those jackasses that take pictures with their whole family all holding assault rifles with a rusty tire iron.
    sigless.

  18. #3943
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    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    Culturally the gun thing is majorly fucked up in our country. Makes me happy to hear resident conservatives support things like mandatory training. Makes sense to me. Mandatory training will get stricken down so fast under the current supreme court.
    I think a waiting period might survive a supreme court test.
    I do think liability is a good way to put a dent in this stuff. I think you should be able to buy as many guns as you want. But you should have to register them. If you want to not have a particular piece anymore, registered sale, or registered gift, or whatever. But if you lose it, or you sell it to sketchy motherfucker without registering the sale, and the gun is used in a violent crime, your ass should go to jail. Bam. 5 years. Someone gets killed with a gun you bought? Bam, 10 years. It will take a while for the halted flow of legally purchased guns to the black market to make a big dent, but eventually people would realize that leaving a gun in their truck is a huge gamble, and maybe I'll leave it in the safe instead. Price of guns on black market will go up, gun crime will go down.
    Also, fuck those jackasses that take pictures with their whole family all holding assault rifles with a rusty tire iron.
    I could have stole any number of registered firearms from my parents at any time. Think to yourself why I didn't and that made the difference. When a cop pulls you over and asks if there are any firearms in the vehicle and you respond, are there any in yours with a blank stare?

    Start there. Until that day. Guns. America. It's like fighting hamburgers. And I've got my burger game on lock as well, and... I'm making lamb mint kofta tonight in my turkey consomme. God bless. Inshallah.

    Final point: if you know it would be struck down, then what is your solution?

    It takes a village to raise a generation of gun owners. You aren't going to take the guns away, so then, what is the solution? It took me years and years of reactionary things like seeing people shot, friends dying, to realize that point which I am making.

    Locked and loaded for your practical ideas on this situation. Otherwise, I don't give a fuck.

    I just re-read your post for the 4th time honestly, and you are living in a dream state. No clue.

    Case in point: I want a gun tonight. Now. I can walk down my stoop or call a couple of friends, get a piece and do whatever the fuck I want and toss it. Solve your problem? I don't think so. Or, I really want to shoot up my Walmart or elementary school. I'm 18, I can walk into (we used to be able to do this, but now I have to walk down the street) walmart, buy some ammo, a new gun and shoot the place up.

    See the larger issue here? It's not the guns. It's the people. That is how you solve it. Not in my lifetime unfortunately. Nor do I really care.

    I really have spent a lot of time thinking about this shit, and it disturbs me about my Country, but I've reconciled myself to understanding how my energy is way better focused on other things, and I just deal with it like any other objective hazard of living in a crazy culture or country. Like lift line etiquette. It really is a 1st world problem. Once you wrap your mind around that, then move on. Carry if you choose, or don't. Every other culture globally makes the same decisions down to the homestead.

    I chose to let my cwp lapse after decades of having it. Hasn't changed my life one bit, and I can carry my guns in or out anyway anyway. No effect. Just my personal shift on the matter.
    Last edited by MakersTeleMark; 11-26-2022 at 09:48 PM.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  19. #3944
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    Local news. Second kid shot in two weeks in a road rage shooting. Only one kid killed in a road rage shooting last month. Too bad there is nothing we can do. How's that feel? Makes me sick.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  20. #3945
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    Why do you care very honestly?

    Username DOES NOT CHECK OUT.

    Do your kids access to any guns? Do you let them joyride?

    I don't give a fuck, let them kill themselves.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  21. #3946
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    My kids and grandkids ride in cars. And they should be in the line of fire?
    Adios amigo.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  22. #3947
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    People are people the world around, but something about the USA is different wrt guns…

    So is it a people problem?

    It would be cool if we could study the issue and find out.

  23. #3948
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    I visited a gun range in Atlanta over the holiday. Place was a temple to gun culture. Pretty incredible. Indoor skeet shooting range (biggest one in the US), 100 yard underground rifle range, ~25 shooting lanes, gun rentals, sales, gunsmith, FFL transfers, conference center, fancy restaurant and bar. We shot various guns at paper targets. It was pretty boring, great way to blow $100 real fast. The people there were what you'd expect. Buncha old white dudes, some had kids with them, many dressed like they were ex-military or wish they were. It was busy on Black Friday anyway. Place seemed to be doing good business in the suburbs of OTP Atlanta. Not really my thing but it was interesting to see that that kind of thing exists out there.

  24. #3949
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    Cops should carry those whippy sticks that are used in parts of Asia.

  25. #3950
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    Who was the comedian who said that they should just allow (or even require) everyone to carry a special gun that can only fire one bullet. You can defend yourself with lethal force but only get one shot.. Most attackers know to expect a bullet coming at them.. I guess a gang of people each with one bullet could try something but it would still be a deterrent knowing that whoever they attack can kill one of them.. But nobody can legally purchase instant mayhem anymore.. Caught with more than one and instant jail.. and no gun for the rest of your life after paroled.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

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